EcoRenovator - View Single Post - ice storm, generators and lessons learned

stevehull · 12-13-15, 08:15 AM

A few updates and clarifications . . .

First, cattle drink a LOT of water. A 330 cut off IBC tote of water might last 12 hours - probably less. Secondly, we have a cold winter here and a hot summer, so warm water in winter and cool in summer helps the steers drink water and result in far fewer health issues.

We use the output of the "pump and dump" (open loop) geothermal heat pump (houses) to supply six watering stations out in the pastures. And small water tanks (50 gallons each) so the water is always fresh and heated/cooled appropriate for the season. The colder (or hotter) it is, the more the geo heat pump is on, and the greater the fresh thermally conditioned water.

Ruminants actually need FAR more water in winter as the dry hay (~5-7% moisture) has to be completely rehydrated before digestion. Compare that with summer grass with 70%+ water content. In winter, cattle will only drink cold water when they absolutely must. Winter dehydration and kidney issues (stones) or other uroliths (urethral stones) are a real health issue. Mine drink conditioned water and pee up a storm . . . warm water in sub freezing temps is cow's delight.

There are times where we have little heat/cool and thus the geo unit is not on much. For those few weeks, I have a bypass valve that fills the water stations at about 2 quarts (liters) a minute (24x7) total. The spillover from all water stations all goes to ponds that are where I get summer irrigation water. I hate to "waste" the btus in that water in low heat/cool times, but this is typically only for a few weeks.

Most cattle people use 1200 watt resistance drop in heaters in their water tanks and the winter bills are just outrageous. Because these are essentially on 100% of the time below 40 F, you have multiple 1.2 kW heaters going 24x7. And the tanks are big 1000 gallon types, so the water remains just above freezing (too cold for appropriate re hydration). Six of these would be 7.2 kW or about 173 kWhrs a day. At $0.10 per kWhr, the DAILY cost, just for these "drop in" resistance heaters would be about $17, with a monthly cost of $518. My cost was trenching some thin walled irrigation type water pipes and paying attention to how water runs downhill . . . .

Most livestock farms of my size assume monthly electric bills for the farm in the $1,000 + range (winter water heaters, summer pump irrigation, etc). My cattle friends are amazed that I am doing this at 1/5th that - and heating/cooling two houses.

The beef freezers contain about $30K of for sale frozen beef so we simply cannot allow those to not be powered. I always have an empty one ready if one of the ones in use fails.

I am also looking at a dedicated "walk in" freezer (200 sq ft) built with 12 inch SIPS as this would make the total freezer kWhr consumption go way down. But then a single freezer unit susceptible to eventual failure at the worst time . . . An alternative is to "rent" freezers to people that want a whole steer (~ 600 lbs), but do not have the space for a large freezer.

The energy plan we have is actually quite comprehensive, but I am now looking seriously at a dedicated back up propane fired generator. A 10-15 kW unit would actually supply all I need, even considering peak start up current for water pump geo compressors, etc.

And next summer will be a 10 kW PV panel on the shop with grid tie. Those don't help with power outages, but Enphase has just released a bidirectional inverter and a "powerwall" system with non-proprietary battery connections (Tesla, others). Then Nissan has announced a bidirectional battery in the new Leaf. That would be about 30 kW just in the car . . . But realistically, an internal combustion back up generator is in the cards.

Winter ice storms and spring wind storms both bring down trees onto power lines. I can't deny that aspect of central Oklahoma - love the trees, but they always seem to fall in the direction of the overhead power lines . . . The lines on my property are underground, but not so the distribution to me . . .

Woke up a couple nights ago worried that I forgot to refill the diesel tractor with fuel. It was so nice to realize that I did NOT have to do that!!

Over the years, many people on this (and other sites) contributes to my preparations above and I thank you for your past comments, suggestions and positivism as well as future concepts. How to have convenience, ready back-up and at appropriate cost is tough!

Steve

12-13-15, 08:15 AM	#7
stevehull Steve Hull Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: hilly, tree covered Arcadia, OK USA Posts: 826 Thanks: 241 Thanked 165 Times in 123 Posts	A few updates and clarifications . . . First, cattle drink a LOT of water. A 330 cut off IBC tote of water might last 12 hours - probably less. Secondly, we have a cold winter here and a hot summer, so warm water in winter and cool in summer helps the steers drink water and result in far fewer health issues. We use the output of the "pump and dump" (open loop) geothermal heat pump (houses) to supply six watering stations out in the pastures. And small water tanks (50 gallons each) so the water is always fresh and heated/cooled appropriate for the season. The colder (or hotter) it is, the more the geo heat pump is on, and the greater the fresh thermally conditioned water. Ruminants actually need FAR more water in winter as the dry hay (~5-7% moisture) has to be completely rehydrated before digestion. Compare that with summer grass with 70%+ water content. In winter, cattle will only drink cold water when they absolutely must. Winter dehydration and kidney issues (stones) or other uroliths (urethral stones) are a real health issue. Mine drink conditioned water and pee up a storm . . . warm water in sub freezing temps is cow's delight. There are times where we have little heat/cool and thus the geo unit is not on much. For those few weeks, I have a bypass valve that fills the water stations at about 2 quarts (liters) a minute (24x7) total. The spillover from all water stations all goes to ponds that are where I get summer irrigation water. I hate to "waste" the btus in that water in low heat/cool times, but this is typically only for a few weeks. Most cattle people use 1200 watt resistance drop in heaters in their water tanks and the winter bills are just outrageous. Because these are essentially on 100% of the time below 40 F, you have multiple 1.2 kW heaters going 24x7. And the tanks are big 1000 gallon types, so the water remains just above freezing (too cold for appropriate re hydration). Six of these would be 7.2 kW or about 173 kWhrs a day. At $0.10 per kWhr, the DAILY cost, just for these "drop in" resistance heaters would be about $17, with a monthly cost of $518. My cost was trenching some thin walled irrigation type water pipes and paying attention to how water runs downhill . . . . Most livestock farms of my size assume monthly electric bills for the farm in the $1,000 + range (winter water heaters, summer pump irrigation, etc). My cattle friends are amazed that I am doing this at 1/5th that - and heating/cooling two houses. The beef freezers contain about $30K of for sale frozen beef so we simply cannot allow those to not be powered. I always have an empty one ready if one of the ones in use fails. I am also looking at a dedicated "walk in" freezer (200 sq ft) built with 12 inch SIPS as this would make the total freezer kWhr consumption go way down. But then a single freezer unit susceptible to eventual failure at the worst time . . . An alternative is to "rent" freezers to people that want a whole steer (~ 600 lbs), but do not have the space for a large freezer. The energy plan we have is actually quite comprehensive, but I am now looking seriously at a dedicated back up propane fired generator. A 10-15 kW unit would actually supply all I need, even considering peak start up current for water pump geo compressors, etc. And next summer will be a 10 kW PV panel on the shop with grid tie. Those don't help with power outages, but Enphase has just released a bidirectional inverter and a "powerwall" system with non-proprietary battery connections (Tesla, others). Then Nissan has announced a bidirectional battery in the new Leaf. That would be about 30 kW just in the car . . . But realistically, an internal combustion back up generator is in the cards. Winter ice storms and spring wind storms both bring down trees onto power lines. I can't deny that aspect of central Oklahoma - love the trees, but they always seem to fall in the direction of the overhead power lines . . . The lines on my property are underground, but not so the distribution to me . . . Woke up a couple nights ago worried that I forgot to refill the diesel tractor with fuel. It was so nice to realize that I did NOT have to do that!! Over the years, many people on this (and other sites) contributes to my preparations above and I thank you for your past comments, suggestions and positivism as well as future concepts. How to have convenience, ready back-up and at appropriate cost is tough! Steve __________________ consulting on geothermal heating/cooling & rational energy use since 1990