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Jay-Cee · 12-22-10, 02:25 PM

AC,
I have to express my appreciation for this thread. I stumbled across it yesterday afternoon and have been like a kid in a candy store reading through the entire thing from page 1. Awesome job to you and Vlad and all others who went out and "did something". I have been entertaining the idea of GSHP for some time now and am thrilled to find a place where many of you have taken the dedication and initiative to go beyond the "entertaining the idea" stage and actually do something about it, whether right or wrong. Very impressive to all of you, I am excited to see how it turns out and am looking forward to taking some action myself.

I have noticed AC that you stress over and over in the post how "insulation, insulation, and insulation" should be one's first call to action so I will start there and also get the GSHP manual you talk about and begin educating myself further.

I have an incredible resource at my disposal in the form of a 15 acre lake positioned 65' from the back of my house and its 13' deep avg. I think this may allow for some very EASY and flexible testing scenarios this spring without all the sweat equity you gents have had to do. However, I don't know a whole lot about HVAC and especially the particulars regarding heat pumps and thermodynamics, but I have certainly learned a lot in the past 24 hours.

As to the radiant flooring, it would seem the most bang for the buck would be a "staple up" method underneath with the foil fins, covered on top with durock and tile flooring. The durock would be bonded to the original subfloor with screws AND thinset mortar, the tile would be bonded to the durock with thinset mortar creating a pseudo stone surface thickness of around 1". The question is, can you live with the inefficientcy of the not very heat conductive wooden subfloor standing between your heat source and stone floor?

Something that hasn't been mentioned previously, and I am surprised Vlad did not run into some of this, is the height factor for anything on top of the floor other than perhaps the MDF foil "jigsaw puzzle" you mentioned (I am familiar with). If a person were doing an entire floor, rather than just a room, and I am guesstimating here with Vlads floor. He put down 3/4" furring strips, then covered floor with 5/8" ply, so now he's at 1-3/8" up with a bare floor. What type finished flooring? hardwood, add 3/4". Tile with underlayment, add another 1-1/8". If he used tile (without cementitous underlayment) or hardwood, he has raised his floor by 2 to 2-1/4". Can he still open his exterior doors? Did he remove them and cut some of the header out and re-install? Will he have to remove/reinstall all of his interior doors as well (could undercut the interior door jambs and simply saw the bottom of the interior doors.)

It seems that if a person is not going to go some route with a poured concrete substance (sometimes the juice isn't worth the squeeze!) that doing a staple up scenario would yield as effective as what Vlad did. I say that because if we really look at what Vlad did.... he put radiant heating on the bottom of a new subfloor that sits on top of the old subfloor. Would his results be the same had he put it on the bottom of the old subfloor and sheeted the bottom of his unfinished (I am assuming they were unfinished) floor joists? I only bring this up as a consideration of cost/effort, not to undermine Vlads' work. He has done far more than I. Thanks again to all, I am loving this discussion/thread.

12-22-10, 02:25 PM	#428
Jay-Cee Lurking Renovator Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO - USA Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks for the great info/ radiant floor ideas. AC, I have to express my appreciation for this thread. I stumbled across it yesterday afternoon and have been like a kid in a candy store reading through the entire thing from page 1. Awesome job to you and Vlad and all others who went out and "did something". I have been entertaining the idea of GSHP for some time now and am thrilled to find a place where many of you have taken the dedication and initiative to go beyond the "entertaining the idea" stage and actually do something about it, whether right or wrong. Very impressive to all of you, I am excited to see how it turns out and am looking forward to taking some action myself. I have noticed AC that you stress over and over in the post how "insulation, insulation, and insulation" should be one's first call to action so I will start there and also get the GSHP manual you talk about and begin educating myself further. I have an incredible resource at my disposal in the form of a 15 acre lake positioned 65' from the back of my house and its 13' deep avg. I think this may allow for some very EASY and flexible testing scenarios this spring without all the sweat equity you gents have had to do. However, I don't know a whole lot about HVAC and especially the particulars regarding heat pumps and thermodynamics, but I have certainly learned a lot in the past 24 hours. As to the radiant flooring, it would seem the most bang for the buck would be a "staple up" method underneath with the foil fins, covered on top with durock and tile flooring. The durock would be bonded to the original subfloor with screws AND thinset mortar, the tile would be bonded to the durock with thinset mortar creating a pseudo stone surface thickness of around 1". The question is, can you live with the inefficientcy of the not very heat conductive wooden subfloor standing between your heat source and stone floor? Something that hasn't been mentioned previously, and I am surprised Vlad did not run into some of this, is the height factor for anything on top of the floor other than perhaps the MDF foil "jigsaw puzzle" you mentioned (I am familiar with). If a person were doing an entire floor, rather than just a room, and I am guesstimating here with Vlads floor. He put down 3/4" furring strips, then covered floor with 5/8" ply, so now he's at 1-3/8" up with a bare floor. What type finished flooring? hardwood, add 3/4". Tile with underlayment, add another 1-1/8". If he used tile (without cementitous underlayment) or hardwood, he has raised his floor by 2 to 2-1/4". Can he still open his exterior doors? Did he remove them and cut some of the header out and re-install? Will he have to remove/reinstall all of his interior doors as well (could undercut the interior door jambs and simply saw the bottom of the interior doors.) It seems that if a person is not going to go some route with a poured concrete substance (sometimes the juice isn't worth the squeeze!) that doing a staple up scenario would yield as effective as what Vlad did. I say that because if we really look at what Vlad did.... he put radiant heating on the bottom of a new subfloor that sits on top of the old subfloor. Would his results be the same had he put it on the bottom of the old subfloor and sheeted the bottom of his unfinished (I am assuming they were unfinished) floor joists? I only bring this up as a consideration of cost/effort, not to undermine Vlads' work. He has done far more than I. Thanks again to all, I am loving this discussion/thread.