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menaus2 · 07-26-12, 10:45 AM

No, I'm saying lots of small actions are better than no action. Big changes on the corporate or governmental level? Even better! Fantastic! But you have to be realistic about the political process. Unless you think you have a good chance of winning a revolution, you are gonna have to try and convince politicians (some of the dumbest, ignorant and self-intersted people on earth) that it's in their best interest to do. Let's remember in the US at least there is a sizable electorate that is absolutely hopeless (think the earth is 6000 years old) Is it still worth it? yeah, we have to try. Don't expect big changes overnight.

On the other hand you have corporations that are driven by profit motive. Consumer demand and regulations can change their actions, but you're fighting against a lot of ingrained thinking. Worth it? yes. And their are more multi-nationals doing substantively sustainable things, for the reasons above and because of the ROI.

So, that leaves what you can do personally. While you control your miniscule part of society, you have a greater potential to make substantive change on that part. It's not just EV's or reusable shopping bag feel good crap, if you seriously and strategically improve your impact, you can take your impact/consumption and divide it by whole numbers. Being we are social animals, everthing you do can influence others. At least opening the possibilities in their minds that, "hey X can actually be done", and the more people that take the risk for a given change, the less of a social risk there is associated with it. It also leaves the potential for coordination among individuals, which if it grows big enough, eventually politicians and the private sector will start pandering to.

So, DirtFlinger, token feel good measures are less useful than they are often marketed. That much is true, but I disagree that conservation measures are useless simply because the big powers have such an impact. Large changes in fact start with individuals taking big risks, changing perceptions of others, and breaking down the social barriers to change.

07-26-12, 10:45 AM	#52
menaus2 Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Driftless Region, North America, Earth, Solar System, Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy,Virgo Supercluster Posts: 116 Thanks: 13 Thanked 35 Times in 25 Posts	No, I'm saying lots of small actions are better than no action. Big changes on the corporate or governmental level? Even better! Fantastic! But you have to be realistic about the political process. Unless you think you have a good chance of winning a revolution, you are gonna have to try and convince politicians (some of the dumbest, ignorant and self-intersted people on earth) that it's in their best interest to do. Let's remember in the US at least there is a sizable electorate that is absolutely hopeless (think the earth is 6000 years old) Is it still worth it? yeah, we have to try. Don't expect big changes overnight. On the other hand you have corporations that are driven by profit motive. Consumer demand and regulations can change their actions, but you're fighting against a lot of ingrained thinking. Worth it? yes. And their are more multi-nationals doing substantively sustainable things, for the reasons above and because of the ROI. So, that leaves what you can do personally. While you control your miniscule part of society, you have a greater potential to make substantive change on that part. It's not just EV's or reusable shopping bag feel good crap, if you seriously and strategically improve your impact, you can take your impact/consumption and divide it by whole numbers. Being we are social animals, everthing you do can influence others. At least opening the possibilities in their minds that, "hey X can actually be done", and the more people that take the risk for a given change, the less of a social risk there is associated with it. It also leaves the potential for coordination among individuals, which if it grows big enough, eventually politicians and the private sector will start pandering to. So, DirtFlinger, token feel good measures are less useful than they are often marketed. That much is true, but I disagree that conservation measures are useless simply because the big powers have such an impact. Large changes in fact start with individuals taking big risks, changing perceptions of others, and breaking down the social barriers to change.