EcoRenovator

EcoRenovator (https://ecorenovator.org/forum/index.php)
-   Solar Power (https://ecorenovator.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=15)
-   -   DIY solar array 12.5 kw (https://ecorenovator.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3053)

Vern2 09-09-13 10:44 PM

pinballlooking,

Remember zero electric bill is cool, but all the excess watts you generate are usually worth a lot less! :eek:

I'm looking at a much cooler shop in the future, new heat pump, plus I really hate changing panel tilt 4 times a year. What a pain! :(

I'm retired and never watched my kids grow up. :( Retirement was a big thing. 800 to 1200 hrs overtime for 33 years. I do believe in the stock market. I'm still working hard, but no way making any money, I don't really need it. It's usually doing things I like doing. Another income thing is plasma table art and parts people need cut up to 5/8" steel. I have a single garage fab shop, coming into it's own little niche.



Vern

Robaroni 09-10-13 09:00 AM

TDI's
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by where2 (Post 31522)
An EV would certainly help end some people's end of the month finances, but not mine. Rather than go that route, I have TDI's in my driveway. Took me 5 years and the roll over of my wife's 4Runner to convince my wife that a TDI would suite her needs just fine. After 6 years driving her TDI, you have to pry the keys out of her hands. She got sideswiped at a filling station a few years ago, and was without her Jetta for a week. She couldn't give that Ford Escape (rental) back fast enough as she watched her $$$ vaporize at every stop light and on-ramp. Three months into my wife's TDI, we did a road trip from FL to Maine and back: averaged 47mpg. The week after that vacation, my boss told me to go find a TDI to replace the Explorer I was driving 62 miles per day! I put 90k on the company TDI before I handed in the keys. Before I left that job, I picked up a used TDI wagon for my own daily driving. I got into it for under $6k, and only put $64/mo into it for fuel... (one fillup, 650 miles per tank!)

RE: Smoking, they were pushing $5/pack for the cheap stuff last I looked. I used to work with some pack-a-day guys who complained quite vocally when they raised taxes $1/pack.

Rather than complain about the need to build more fossil fuel plants or add more reactors to the alternatives, I simply did what my POCO did and built a renewable energy plant of my own (4.4kW). You can't tell me PV doesn't make sense in America when my own POCO has 35 megawatts of PV running, and a 75 megawatt solar thermal facility...

Where2,
The Germans swear that the TDI's are better than the hybrids. Simpler and cheaper to run. I don't know, I'd like to see the cost analysis for 100k miles. I do know that once electrics get some issues worked out, they will walk away with transportation.
One thing that's nice about the diesels (and electrics) is the torque curve. I like cars and trucks with broad torque curves, much nicer to drive.

The only thing I heard about the VW's is the repairs can kill you and they don't have great repair records although you might have a better idea about this owning a couple over a long time.

Rob

Robaroni 09-10-13 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinballlooking (Post 31524)
We really like our Chevy Volt. We bought it mid Feb this year. So far we have driven 8850 EV miles and our life time MPG is 181. We have saved 417 gallons of gas so far. We charge it with solar power so take that oil companies. We live out away for things there lots of people that don’t use their first tank of gas the first year of ownership.
It has 236 lbs. torque and that toque is usable at any speed. So it is fun to drive. if you are thinking about a EV you should test drive one.

Pinball,
I've heard Chevy did their homework on the Volt, that's great mileage and of course the icing is the PV charging!

Rob

Robaroni 09-10-13 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vern2 (Post 31529)
pinballlooking,

Remember zero electric bill is cool, but all the excess watts you generate are usually worth a lot less! :eek:

Vern

Vern,
My rural electric coop pays me the amount they charge per KWH, I think it's 10.7cents. Maybe because it's a coop? I pay a monthly fee of about $15.00 and that's it but I did have to buy my smart meter when I put the system in.

I know the PV systems in town on NYSEG (New York State Energy and Gas) get less per KWH than they pay for it. Also NYSEG is reluctant to OK intertie systems where as the coop engineer welcomed me and did all he could to help me get the system in. I think I was the only one who did his own install. I hope I will lead the way to others doing their own, I get a lot of people asking me about my systems and I have people coming up my driveway with lots of questions.
What I'm hoping to see are more places like HD selling 'box' systems to people for DIY installs.
I know Amazon sells this module arrangement that lets you put up modules in bundles of 4. You just stick a plug in the wall for an intertie, that's it!
HF sells modules too but I don't know how good they are.

Rob

TackyTeddy 09-10-13 12:57 PM

I'm just up the road a bit, thought you'd like a PV System to do comparision with.

System Location: 467 Lawson Road, Crossville, TN 38571

Tilt: 26.5° Orientation: 180°
Panels:21 (7 x Schott Poly 235) + (14 x Suniva MVP240)
Inverter: 21 (7 M190 + 14 M215) Enphase microinverter
Monitoring: Enphase Enlighten Capacity (kWp): 4.93

My Enphase is at: https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/...tems/Wjgg11567

My install page is at: Prospective by TackyTed - Solar

My PVoutput (Great Stats and it's free (Donation's) : Teddy-Denise 5kW Crossville,TN 4.998kW | Monthly

My Generator page : Generaytor | the solar energy network

If an individual wants to harvest the sunlight that’s falling on their property and sell it for a profit, that’s their American right.

pinballlooking 10-04-13 09:22 AM

2 Attachment(s)
This was the first full month with my upgraded solar power. I am happy to say we covered all electric we used and are carrying forward -$18 power to next month.
This was a nice sunny month. http://www.pvoutput.org/list.jsp?id=23064&sid=20945
This is good because the boys are back in school and we charge the car two to three times a day.
Duke power raised the meter fee to $8.49 a month but the new rates are only for ½ this month.

Daox 10-04-13 10:03 AM

Very nice! Congrats on a job well done. :)

Robaroni 10-04-13 10:05 AM

Guys,
Listen to this. I get my bill on the 17th of each month and Sept. is the first month that I've run with both my systems feeding back to the grid.
Anyway I get my bill and it's missing my interties so it's just like a regular bill everyone gets. I send an email out to the nice people at my coop and the clerk sends me an email back that the trouble was that their system was only set up for 4 digits and my power exceeded that so it didn't register. Sept. was such a sunny month that I produced over a megawatt. Oct. looks like it will be just about the same. I checked my solar output and this Sept. made more power than the previous two years. I heard that Germany had record power too.

My coop is going to give me the credit this month. I can't wait to see what my bill looks like as this will be over a megawatt too! I'm really getting close to heating the house on PV, once the wind is in I should be able to do it with heat pumps.
Rob

pinballlooking 10-04-13 10:15 AM

That is crazy they can’t handle megawatt. I have Duke Power and that have smart meters but they do the solar billing adjustments by hand each month. It is crazy they don’t automate this.
We just got a little better that a %5 increase but the base rate went from 7.29 to 8.29 and they don’t let us offset this. I guess this is what they will do in the future just keep raising the base rate so they can get more money from solar installs.

I am adding one and hopefully two mini split systems the first one is 27 seer and should ship soon.
I have natural gas heat and I want to use some of the solar power to heat.

Robaroni 10-04-13 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinballlooking (Post 32117)
That is crazy they can’t handle megawatt. I have Duke Power and that have smart meters but they do the solar billing adjustments by hand each month. It is crazy they don’t automate this.
We just got a little better that a %5 increase but the base rate went from 7.29 to 8.29 and they don’t let us offset this. I guess this is what they will do in the future just keep raising the base rate so they can get more money from solar installs.

I am adding one and hopefully two mini split systems the first one is 27 seer and should ship soon.
I have natural gas heat and I want to use some of the solar power to heat.

PB, It wasn't that they couldn't handle the input it's that they never expected a residential customer to feed them that much power.

Pricing wise we pay 10.7 cents a KWH and also get the same 10.7 cents. I expect this is because we are a coop.

27 seer, that's pretty good, whose unit is it?

Rob

pinballlooking 10-04-13 12:13 PM

I have a good chance to produce 2 megawatts next April. (I hope so anyway.)

The first one is their 9,000 BTU system. I just saw they shipped it today.
Terra Series - Ductless Wall Mount Heating and Cooling | Gree Comfort
The second one I want is this one but I need to get the first one installed before I order it.
Fujitsu 12RLS2 Wall Ductless Air Conditioner / Heat Pump 25 SEER - 12,000 BTU (1 Ton)
Fujitsu 12RLS2 Wall Ductless Air Conditioner / Heat Pump 25 SEER - 12,000 BTU (1 Ton) -

Robaroni 10-04-13 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinballlooking (Post 32122)
I have a good chance to produce 2 megawatts next April. (I hope so anyway.)

The first one is their 9,000 BTU system. I just saw they shipped it today.
Terra Series - Ductless Wall Mount Heating and Cooling | Gree Comfort
The second one I want is this one but I need to get the first one installed before I order it.
Fujitsu 12RLS2 Wall Ductless Air Conditioner / Heat Pump 25 SEER - 12,000 BTU (1 Ton)
Fujitsu 12RLS2 Wall Ductless Air Conditioner / Heat Pump 25 SEER - 12,000 BTU (1 Ton) -

2 Meg, that's significant!

I like the Fujitsu, I've heard good things about them but I'd like to know the seer at 20F, the specs don't give it. I'm more concerned about heating than cooling living in the mountains.

Rob

pinballlooking 10-04-13 02:31 PM

I was at 1.8 Meg last month.
I like the Fujitsu also but the first unit I got is for my master bed room.
The Gree system has a Mitsubishi compressor.
Gree is crazy big. From there web site
“currently 200,000,000 Gree air conditioner customers spanning the globe”


Here this will give all the info you want and more.
This is a Gov test between Fujitsu 12RLS and Mitsubishi
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy11osti/52175.pdf

Robaroni 10-04-13 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinballlooking (Post 32131)
I was at 1.8 Meg last month.
I like the Fujitsu also but the first unit I got is for my master bed room.
The Gree system has a Mitsubishi compressor.
Gree is crazy big. From there web site
“currently 200,000,000 Gree air conditioner customers spanning the globe”


Here this will give all the info you want and more.
This is a Gov test between Fujitsu 12RLS and Mitsubishi
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy11osti/52175.pdf

Great! That's what I'm looking for!

Rob

Vern2 10-04-13 03:54 PM

Robaroni,

How many kWh's for the month was it, to reach one meg of power output to the grid. :eek: I know dumb question, 1k x 1k = 1 meg.

I have a 68,472 kWh life time (3.5 years) so far. I'm thinking I have a ways to go for one meg.

Daox 10-04-13 04:12 PM

1 mWh = 1000 kWh

So you already have 68 mWh.

Vern2 10-04-13 04:34 PM

Daox,

Thanks. Never looked at it that way. Arizona's cool for solar. :cool:

Robaroni 10-04-13 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vern2 (Post 32133)
Robaroni,

How many kWh's for the month was it, to reach one meg of power output to the grid. :eek: I know dumb question, 1k x 1k = 1 meg.

I have a 68,472 kWh life time (3.5 years) so far. I'm thinking I have a ways to go for one meg.

Vern,
That's very good output! 16.3 Mega Watt Hours per month! You have me beat! What's you total system watts?

Rob

Vern2 10-04-13 05:45 PM

Robaroni,

I have 40 each, 230 watt panels, total 9.2k. I refuse to adjust my panel tilt any more. I've got one good arm and leg. And wont ask for help any more for help with my money situation, it's just wrong. My solar sales guy, Lon from Sun Valley solar, found in the USA, within the Sun Power community, a few 245, 72 module panels. SunPower only makes 92 module panels, 345 watt. The two factories that make SunPower panels, has converted to the 345w panel. For me the 245w panels are much cheaper and identical to the size that I already have. I'm adding 10 - 245w panels for a new total of 11,650w system. With cooling shop down, with 12k btu heat pump and fixed tilt, I hope I'll still be able over generate a little.

SunPower 345w panels are at 20.4 percent.

Robaroni 10-04-13 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vern2 (Post 32139)
Robaroni,

I have 40 each, 230 watt panels, total 9.2k. I refuse to adjust my panel tilt any more. I've got one good arm and leg. And wont ask for help any more for help with my money situation, it's just wrong. My solar sales guy, Lon from Sun Valley solar, found in the USA, within the Sun Power community, a few 245, 72 module panels. SunPower only makes 92 module panels, 345 watt panels. The two factories that make SunPower panels, has converted to the 345w panel. For me the 245w panels are much cheaper and identical to the size that I already have. I'm adding 10 - 245w panels for a new total of 11,650w system. With cooling shop down, with 12k btu heat pump and fixed tilt, I'll hope I'll be able to over generate a little.

Vern,
I wouldn't worry too much about tilt. It's nice if you have it but not imperative. My first panel mounts were fixed. When I built them I set the angle for the best winter sun as that's when I needed it most since I wasn't feeding the grid with those panels at the time.
I think if you set them up for a good compromise angle in your area you won't lose that much, especially considering how much power you're making right now. Adding a few modules makes up the difference pretty fast.

Rob

Vern2 10-04-13 06:02 PM

Robaroni,

I don't have the numbers yet, may never get them, haven't been on fixed tilt for that long. I do feel I was getting around 15 percent boost with a 4 season tilt for last 3 1/2 years. I really had to get one year in the bank before power company would give me a full year of productivity, credit. There year starts on Feb first.

TackyTeddy 10-05-13 09:39 AM

As of October 5, 2013 at 8:33 AM Central Time (USA).

Thought some would like our Comparision.

3500 sq. ft. 3 people
Electric water heater and dryer, and 14,000 xmas lights. Our usage per month avg. (2012) 1200kWh, This year (2013) it's 919kWh (Yes a solar PV system does make one fine tune one's electric usage)

Heat is propane 700 gal


PV Solar System Location: 467 Lawson Road, Crossville, TN 38571
( https://maps.google.com/maps?q=36.0169,-85.0355 )

My install page is at: Prospective by TackyTed - Solar

Tilt: 26.5° Orientation: 180°
Panels:21 (7 x Schott Poly 235) + (14 x Suniva MVP240)
Inverter: 21 (7 M190 + 14 M215) Enphase microinverter
Monitoring: Enphase Enlighten Capacity (kWp): 4.93


http://tackyted.com/storage/solar/Se...eddyDenise.jpg


Bottom line is a $$$ zero cost for my electric bill for the year.

Best regards,

http://tackyted.com/storage/solar/Te...eSolarRoof.jpg

If an individual wants to harvest the sunlight that’s falling on their property and sell it for a profit, that’s their American right.

Robaroni 10-05-13 10:20 AM

teddy,
Nice location, I like the water and building in it.

Getting 12 cents over your rate is fantastic! We get the same rate as our cost which is still better than most places.
The 180 degrees, is that an east/west orientation?

Rob

pinballlooking 10-05-13 04:37 PM

I like your location.
Last month we used 1,600 kwh but we have a Chevy Volt we charge it 2 to 3 times a day.
Each charge takes about 12 kwh the first two charges are complete charges (total 24 kwh). The third charge is usually a partial charge.
This saves us so much gas but it does add up at the end of the month. Since mid Feb we have saved over $1,700 in gas and driven 10,504 EV miles. We fill up with sun solar power.  We just put gas in the Volt that is the first time we have been to the gas station for almost 2 months. We live away from town or we might not use any gas like lots of Volt owners.

Robaroni 10-05-13 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinballlooking (Post 32169)
I like your location.
Last month we used 1,600 kwh but we have a Chevy Volt we charge it 2 to 3 times a day.
Each charge takes about 12 kwh the first two charges are complete charges (total 24 kwh). The third charge is usually a partial charge.
This saves us so much gas but it does add up at the end of the month. Since mid Feb we have saved over $1,700 in gas and driven 10,504 EV miles. We fill up with sun solar power.  We just put gas in the Volt that is the first time we have been to the gas station for almost 2 months. We live away from town or we might not use any gas like lots of Volt owners.

PB,
One of my friends told me that Chevy plans on coming out with an EV that goes 200 miles on a charge by 2016.

I think it's great that you're saving so much on gas.

Rob

where2 10-05-13 06:45 PM

Ted, What cutoff dates are you using for your pie chart? I'd like to generate my own, and it would be interesting to see a comparison to someone else's chart. My 4.4kW system only went online on August 1st, so I'm just in the early days of collecting data. I passed the 1MWh milestone in just under 2 months. Averaged 4.4kWh/kW in August, 3.4kWh/kW in September.

Vern2 10-05-13 07:02 PM

TackyTeddy,

What really bothers me, is how Chevrolet got there bailout, sorry. I've gone the Prius route, 60 miles a gallion is not bad. When the Volt battery is discharged, it's mpg is around 32. I really don't care about mpg, I drive a yellow Hummer below.

http://www.enichesoftware.com/media/garagefloor.jpg


Shop is always under some kind of change.
http://www.enichesoftware.com/media/shop layout.jpg



I supply compost to the weekend farms here in Arizona where I live. This was a year ago.
http://www.enichesoftware.com/media/compost2.jpg

pinballlooking 10-05-13 07:39 PM

Cool compost!

I do not want get into politics. Most days we use no gas at all and drive over 80 miles each day Prius just can’t do that. We are getting about 200mpg right now. We really like the Volt very comfortable and young kids will see we are a elect car and try to take us on the line they usually get surprised.

where2 10-05-13 07:45 PM

Unfortunately, at current fuel prices, even 60mpg won't justify the payments versus the 40mpg (city) I'm getting in my paid for MkIV TDI station wagon. I refuel the little red wagon once a month for $64. Costs more to insure it, than it does to drive it.

pinballlooking 10-05-13 08:05 PM

It would not make sense for you to change cars.
We will drive the Volt 25,000 to 30,000 miles a year that has a lot of potential for savings.
But with any EV they have to be right for the people that need it. You really need to evaluate your exact situation to be sure if one is right for you. It really works for us but that will not be the same for everyone else.
I love not sending so much of my money to countries that produce oil.

Vern2 10-05-13 10:30 PM

pinballlooking,

Really don't want to offend anyone, the volt is a good car.

I'm retired and have 25k miles on 2004 hummer, it's fun to drive. Knock on wood it's never been in the shop, still running perfect at 12 mpg. Wife works 5 miles from home, that's basically it. Don't spend much for fuel for transportation. I buy more gas for 26 hp lawn mower then hummer. Have a 48v battery operated lawn mower for back yard, Ryobi. Kids are grown up, starting there own families. :D

My Compost operation is a little larger now. $15 a cubic yard or $2 a bag, any size. Have about 20 yards ready to sell. Hay, I found out how to sell my grass clippings. :thumbup: It's not taking much space or time to do it.

Plasma table is coming on line. Will start selling art and AR500 targets on the net. Been selling software on the Web sense 2001, $45 each.

pinballlooking 10-05-13 10:55 PM

I am not offended I just did not want this to turn bad. People always seem to have strong feelings on the Volt.
To me it is just a car a little more range would be nice but it is working well for us.

Our other car is a Tahoe we don’t drive it much now but it tows my boat and we have horses. It pulls the hay trailer and more.
It is fun hearing about others with solar and cool projects. Vern2 I love you trailer that folds down to allow forks from your tractor.
We have a 36 HP diesel tractor and I just got a project 9N.
Mark

Robaroni 10-06-13 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinballlooking (Post 32176)
It would not make sense for you to change cars.
We will drive the Volt 25,000 to 30,000 miles a year that has a lot of potential for savings.
But with any EV they have to be right for the people that need it. You really need to evaluate your exact situation to be sure if one is right for you. It really works for us but that will not be the same for everyone else.
I love not send so much of my money to countries that produce oil.

PB,
Have you noticed any battery degradation over the 30k miles you've driven? I'm wondering what the life of the batteries might be?
Personally I'm eager to get an EV, can't wait to charge my own car at home with PV like you. Being retired I don't have the mileage load you do but I really like wagons so that limits me right now too. I have an old Ford 150 beater truck but the Subie is the car of choice. Also we need 4WD here in the mountains so my EV would have to be a second car at this point.

Rob

Vern2 10-06-13 10:28 AM

Robaroni,

Nic battery on taxi Prius is lasting 700k miles, heat kills them.

Prius manages it's battery, 50 percent discharge, 80 percent charge. Battery life is good on hybrid vehicles

pinballlooking 10-06-13 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robaroni (Post 32188)
PB,
Have you noticed any battery degradation over the 30k miles you've driven? I'm wondering what the life of the batteries might be?
Personally I'm eager to get an EV, can't wait to charge my own car at home with PV like you. Being retired I don't have the mileage load you do but I really like wagons so that limits me right now too. I have an old Ford 150 beater truck but the Subie is the car of choice. Also we need 4WD here in the mountains so my EV would have to be a second car at this point.

Rob

Prius is using very old battery technology. But the see the light and are changing.
Toyota Refines Battery Chemistry to Improve Next Prius - Bloomberg

Everybody else already uses lithium-ion and the volt has water cooled battery’s. it is very important to keep the battery’s temp not varying too much. There are Volts with 60,000 miles and the range has not changed. The battery warrantee is 8 years or 100,000 miles.
Leaf uses air cooled batteries but only time will tell what way is better air or water cooled.

Vern2 10-06-13 08:09 PM

Robaroni,

Sorry, missing info on my part.

The NiCa batteries are old tech. That battery is used in the Prius hybrid models only. Mine is a 2011 and only cost $6k, with a 2008 trade in, I could not pass-up the deal offered to me. :eek:

Prius Plug-in uses the Lithium technology. It's a $16k trade-in for me ($32k for a plug-in model) Ev is only 14 miles for plug-in's offered now. To much money, too little benefit. Hybrids can be driven cross country, without worrying where the next 220v electrical outlet is or your stuck for an 8 hour or more with 110v, but ev is Cool. USA is not setup for ev yet.

Many charge stations charge $1.00 or more for one kWh. :eek:

Opening up your own charge station is a good business venture. :thumbup:

pinballlooking 10-06-13 08:20 PM

Prius is a good car and the best selling hybrid in the world. I you want a EV Prius plug in is not the way to go.
It you can use 100% EV the Leaf or the Chevy Spark might be good choices

Vern2 10-06-13 08:38 PM

pinballlooking,

The Plug-in's are in town cars. :thumbup:

Lack of 220v outlets kill Ev's.

Prius Plug-in was built for Japan. 14 miles gets you almost any where. :eek:

Robaroni 10-07-13 08:34 AM

Guys,
I think what we are seeing with these cars is a transition period from fossil fuel to electric, just like the reverse when the ICE took over from electrics when cars were first introduced.

The thing is that the fossil fuel industry is a very powerful group and they will do all they can to down play EV's, PV, wind, etc.

Those of us taking the 'plunge' know better as can easily b e seen here by our grid tie benefits.

The bottom line is that my hat goes off to producers like Toyota, Tesla, and Nissan who are willing to push the technology forth and of course to people like Herman Sheer who instrumented the massive PV structural changes in Germany.

Rob

pinballlooking 10-07-13 09:34 AM

I don’t think EV’s are not just in town cars anymore. Tesla has amazing range I guy I know just bought a Leaf for his wife it is working well they don’t live in town.
We don’t live in town and the volt works very well for us. The have turned the corner and are no longer just in town cars.

The Volt will charge @ 120 volts but we use 240 a full charge takes about 4 hours for a full charge. The very nice thing with the volt is when your charge runs out it switches to gas and keep going. This is even better for people like us that don’t live in town. So if you need gas for part of your trip the first EV part still allows some great MPG.
It is about $1.20 to charge with .10 kwh power but even better if you have solar. Solar and EV’s go hand and hand.


If you are ever wondering about real world Volt users go here.
Volt Stats! Tracking real world usage of Chevy Volts in the wild...
Volt owners.
GM-Volt: Chevy Volt Forum


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:00 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Ad Management by RedTyger