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-   -   Santa Fe Classic Dehumidifier (https://ecorenovator.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4863)

Xringer 07-18-16 04:52 PM

Santa Fe Classic Dehumidifier
 
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This looks like the perfect unit for my basement!
Buy Santa Fe Classic Basement & Whole House Dehumidifier (4029700) | Thermastor 4029700

Capacity @ AHAM: 110 Pints/Day
Capacity @ Saturation: 180 Pints/Day
Amp Draw: 6.4 Amps
CFM: 275 CFM
Operating Temp. Range: 56 - 95F

Wow! Listed at $1,671.00 Got it off craigslist for $100
See: http://ecorenovator.org/forum/sale-t...list-used.html

It seems to be working Okay. In ideal conditions, it pumped a cup of water in about 35 minutes.
After I install some filters, I'll give it a good test run.. It does use about 6.4 Amps at 120vac..

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1468878596

pinballlooking 07-18-16 05:39 PM

Great deal.

jeff5may 07-19-16 10:28 PM

Gut shots? Or did it already get installed somewhere?

Xringer 07-19-16 11:55 PM

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I think it's a 6 or 7 years old. Recently replaced. No explanation of why..
But, when I did a short test the day of delivery, it was idea weather for a test. Raining & 80F. in an open garage.
Looking at the amount of water that came out. I estimate 1/2 quart per hour. (or less).
Spec says under idea conditions, 2 quarts per hour.

On some of the reviews I've seen, there were owners saying that refrigerant slowly leaked out. (4 or 5 years)
I hope that's all that's wrong with this one.Hope it just needs a shot of R410A..
Planning to test some more when I get some air filters.

Noticed the compressor got really hot. Wondering what the normal operating temperature is.?.

Xringer 07-21-16 02:05 PM

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The maintenance port is out on a thin tube..
I can see how it might get broke off when removing the cap..

Xringer 07-23-16 05:05 PM

Pressure test?
 
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If I put a gauge on the low pressure port while the unit is running, I should see about 240 PSI?
Or, is that the Max pressure? On a mini-split, it seems like 130-140 PSI is common..

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1469311501

Xringer 07-25-16 01:12 PM

Kinda working..
 
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I'm not so sure.. I found a user that's had a lot of problems with this model..
Sante Fe Classic Quality Issues

He's included five links to YouTube videos in his posts..

Mine seems to be working poorly. Only getting about a quart during a 1 hour run..
Temp 70F with RH between 60 & 70 percent.

I'm wondering if a Superheat test could tell me anything..
First, I'll have to find out what the 'standard' Superheat temperature is for this model. At 70F & 70%RH..

~~~~
After a 1/2 hour warm up, I did a little testing of the input air vs the output air.
Input air was 62%RH @ 73deg
Output was 38%RH @ 82deg
A change of 24%RH & 9 deg.

JRMichler 07-30-16 01:56 PM

Maybe I'm lucky or something, but we bought a Thermastor Santa Fe Classic dehumidifier in 2003. We put it in the living room to use as a whole house dehumidifier in summer. It's been working perfectly ever since.

The house temperature is typically 75 to 80 deg F, humidity 45 to 50%. The house is well insulated, so we rarely use the AC. Also, the AC does not do a good job of removing moisture.

My wife likes it dry, sometimes the humidity gets down to 40%.

Xringer 07-30-16 02:10 PM

Wow! That sounds like money well spent.
Is it a R22 or R401a version? I'm also very interested in the temperature of the input air, vs the output air.
I think it might be a quick way to determine the correct refrigerant load.

If I can get this one working to spec, it would be fantastic for our musky basement..

JRMichler 07-31-16 08:15 PM

The nameplate says R22. It's running right now. The room temperature is 76 deg F, 53% RH, outlet temperature is 100 deg F. The outlet temperature reading may be a little low, it's a cheap little thermometer laying on the floor.

Xringer 07-31-16 08:39 PM

Santa Fe Classic
 
Wow, 24 deg F is a lot! Mine is only running a 9 deg temperature gain.

From what I've read so far, I think the pints per day spec might be the same
on both the R22 and R410a Santa Fe Classic units.
So the temperature gain might be similar.
I'm going to see if I can find some more data on the R22 unit online.

Since the target Superheat data doesn't seem to be available, maybe using
the I/O temperature gain will be an alternative way to add some R410a to the unit.

I can't believe how heavy it is! Getting it down to the basement was a task and a half..

Thanks for the info!

Xringer 08-02-16 07:46 AM

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Hey JR, If you ever remove the side panel and run the unit..
Be aware that it might short cycle and keep going into defrost mode.
I had the side cover off mine, and noticed the accumulator got really cold on the bottom,
and was pretty normal on the top. (Top 48F, Bottom 8F).
The bottom is near the defrost sensor, and the low pressure starts defrost.
It shuts down the compressor. When I started to replace the cover, when the unit was running,
It almost sucked the cover out of my hands! It slammed into place..
I didn't even have to hold it, while putting in the 6 screws..
That cover HAS to be on, for the unit to operate normally.
(Note: This unit is not completely normal, since it's not running at spec).

The defrost sensor is in the middle, to the left of the accumulator tube, wrapped in insulation. (wire coming out of it).

jeff5may 08-02-16 10:09 PM

xringer,
250 psig is too high of a low side pressure to gather much moisture. You are correct in assuming that 120 - 150 psig is the range you should be in. Without high side pressure or any useful temperature readongs, it is difficult to venture a guess what is awry.

If you have the r410a, you could just reclaim what is in the unit, pull a deep vacuum, and weigh in the amount of gas on the nameplate. We don't know what previous owners did with the unit, and it would eliminate all doubt about what is circulating inside the plumbing. You could get lucky and have nothing else wrong with the unit...

Xringer 08-02-16 11:04 PM

Those numbers on the accumulator tube.. Maybe a service guy wrote them?
84 & 384 then 77 & 383 ?? Do those seem like low & high side pressures?

That has me wondering if there is a high-side port somewhere inside the unit?
I just haven't located it yet.?.

As to the problem, I think this unit might have a very slow leak..
The owner turned it on this spring & saw it was only making a quart per hour..
And the company just sent him a new one, because it was still on warranty.?.

At over 100 pounds, it's pretty heavy to be shipping back to Madison, WI..

jeff5may 08-03-16 11:31 AM

could be. low side readings correspond to below freezing and high side reading corresponds to 110 degF. Since you observed massive airflow, the evaporator would take a long time to freeze up under this condition, but would grab lots of moisture.

I know you know how to leak check and repair the plumbing.

Xringer 08-03-16 05:01 PM

I can't find the high-side port. It's either really inaccessible, or doesn't exist..
I think my HVAC buddy might have a scale that could measure out a 23 oz (1.4375 pound) charge..
Not sure if he has a recovery unit for R410a..
Anyways, maybe bringing up the low-side to 80 PSIg could get it working right.

As to the leak.. When I wanted to remove the low-side port cab for inspection, it was on there like it had epoxy on it..
I had to rig up a low table to brace the tube-side wrench, while I unscrewed the cap,with a socket wrench..
No rubber gasket inside, but it doesn't seem like a leaking Schrader valve.
But, I replaced the cap with a new one (w/ a gasket), just in case.

If it's a pinhole in one of the HX coils.. I'm not sure how to even find a leak
there, much less repair it.. Have to do some reading!

Xringer 08-03-16 08:50 PM

Maybe this thing works better than it did at first glance.?.
 
Testing this machine in one side of a smallish (20x40) basement isn't the way to go.
The air gets too dry, too fast!
Now, I've aimed the output air towards a door to finished side of the basement,
and noticed it does a pretty good job in about 1/2 hour..

So, this evening, I divided the test into two 1/2 hour tests, with a 45 minute break in the middle.

Total water collected was 50 oz.. That may be near the spec. (See AHAM below).
Since I was running it at 70deg with 45% to 50% RH..

50 oz. x 24 hours =1,200 oz. Or 75 pints! (35.5 liters, or 9.375 gallons or 37.5 quarts).

I'm going to start setting the humistat so the unit shuts off at around 50%,
and see how much power it uses, keeping the whole basement at 50% for a day or two..



Capacity at AHAM is 110 Pints per Day..

Capacity at AHAM lets you compare how different dehumidifiers will perform under the same conditions.
The Capacity at AHAM rating is expressed in pints per 24 hour period at 80 F and 60% relative humidity.

Xringer 08-03-16 09:05 PM

The power use spec is:
Power: 720 watts @ 80F and 60% RH
Supply Voltage: 115 volt - 1 phase - 60 Hz
Current Draw: 6.4 Amps

We have 120vac and it's drawing 5.8 Amps. But displaying 620 watts.?.
Since it's lower than spec, maybe I'm using a too cheap filter.?. :o
I'm just happy it's not using more power than spec..

jeff5may 08-04-16 11:35 AM

the unit probably doesn't have a high-side service port. Many of the smaller units don't even have a low-side port (too expensive/not built to service easily).

Xringer 08-04-16 01:39 PM

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I think you're right. If it's there, there is no way to get to it.

For the last 16 hours, the SFC has been keeping the basement around 50.5% RH (on average).

It seems like there is a 6 or 7 RH% hysteresis in the Humistat.
There is more KW hour use than I like.. But, I think that will go down some, when the slab & walls starts to dry out more.

I did notice the noise last night. It's a bit loud, for a small house.. :(
But, it might not be too hard to build a noise suppressor..
Santa Fe Optional Muffler Kit (4022561) | Jon-Don
Once I pick out a good install location for the unit.. Right now, it's in the way! :o

Since the summers seem to getting shorter, I'm not sure if this thing is going to worth the cost..
Not sure how much use it's going to get. I have to admit, it's working a lot better than the old one..
(Zenith 30-pint Dehumidifier ZD300) That was made for 1 room. Maybe 1 small room..

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...r-p1030576-jpg

Xringer 08-11-16 12:46 PM

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The RH in the basement is staying down around 50% on average..
The KillaWatt meter is set for 22 cents per KWH and it's showing $11.20 per month.
Power should cost 50 to 60 bucks per summer to keep the whole basement dry.

Plus, I'll be needing some more filters.. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009AW31SC

The smell of the basement is very fresh-air-like now. So far, we are really liking this machine.

During the winter, and when it's over-cast, the A7 ASHP Hotwater heater takes the RH down too..


Today the local station says it.. Feels like: 100F

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...empdaycomp-png

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...r-humidday-png

JRMichler 08-11-16 07:30 PM

The factory muffler kit definitely makes it quieter. We folded an old rug and put it under our unit and made it even quieter. It's a little louder than I would like, but is still tolerable in our living room.

Xringer 08-11-16 07:50 PM

I looked at the design of the muffler, and I think that I could duplicate it in my shop.
However, since it's in the basement, the noise isn't much of a problem.

The comfort down there is fantastic, I used my heat monitor pistol,
and found out the basement slab is still very cool, in August?
Today it was 60F in the SW corner and 50F in the NW corner..
Seems like it should be 8 or 10 degrees warmer..
Maybe the last few winters were colder than most.?.

JRMichler 08-11-16 07:52 PM

It's just a piece of sheet metal lined with foam. Plywood would work just as well as the sheet metal.

Xringer 08-18-16 01:07 PM

Filter day!
 
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Got the correct filters today, and the heat pistol is telling me the air exhaust vent is 90F, with the basement at 71.4 F right now.
It 'feels' like it's got more air-flow now. Which I like!
The quality of the filters and the pre-filter is excellent. The USMail didn't crush the shipping box too badly..
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009AW31SC

Current RH in the basement is 50% :D And, there is no 'basement odor'.. :p

WOW! Outdoor RH just dropped down to 45%. Makes me wish the basement ventilation blowers could dry the basement better. Changing all the air 3 times an hour, should work okay.. But nope.. It's fine keeping the radon levels down..



I'll have to remember to shut it down, when I do any dust-making work in my shop..
The standard heating system filter I've been using doesn't seem to be dirty,
so maybe these new filters will last a long time..


http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...-p1030590s-jpg

Xringer 09-05-16 10:43 PM

Now that fall is in the air, there is less dampness in the basement..
And it's getting cooler around here too. (at least this week).
70 hours ago, I reset the KilaVolt meter and tonight it's log shows a lot less run time/less KWHs..
The cost is down to just under $5 a month as of now..
So, I'm going to guess the average for a summer, is going to be about $7 per month.
At 5 months per summer is going to cost us around 30 bucks.
I believe it's money well spent. The Santa De Classic rocks!
The air downstairs has been great since buying this unit..

Xringer 10-18-16 12:55 PM

When it starting getting cool,
 
480 hours (20 days) ago, I reset the KilaWatt meter and now it's showing $2.20 per month. (20 cents per KWh).

Right now, Humidity: 96 % Outdoors. In the Basement, it's 50% RH.
It's not running very much, but the min & max is staying within the 48 to 52% RH range.. (64 to 66F range).

When the basement temp drops a little more, I'm assuming the Santa Fe can be turned off for the winter.
But for now, it's not costing much to run, so it's staying turned on.. (7 cents per day).

Xringer 11-10-16 04:56 PM

We noticed the Santa Fe wasn't running last week, so it's been shut down for a while.
The humistat displaying min 42% & max 45% RH.. That's a pretty dry basement so far..
I think it's time to put a dust cover over the unit..

Xringer 06-21-17 12:29 PM

Wow, the basement was at 75% RH today! (Outdoor RH is 40%)
I had been using the ventilation blower to bring cool dry air into the basement, but it hasn't been working very well..
Have done this a few times this spring and it's done poorly...

So, I'm going back to the Santa Fe and see if any R410a has leaked out over the winter..

So far, it's running okay.. Even if it's still cool(67F) in the basement.

MN Renovator 06-22-17 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xringer (Post 54822)
Wow, the basement was at 75% RH today! (Outdoor RH is 40%)
I had been using the ventilation blower to bring cool dry air into the basement, but it hasn't been working very well..
Have done this a few times this spring and it's done poorly...

What temperature was it outside when the RH was 40%?

Xringer 06-22-17 03:32 PM

It got up to about 81F maybe..

WOBURN WEATHER CENTER - Weekly Conditions

MN Renovator 06-22-17 05:13 PM

81 degrees 40% RH and 63 degrees with 75% RH would be the same amount of moisture in the air. By turning on mechanical ventilation, you aren't reducing moisture content in the air. You are just cycling air with a similar moisture quantity at a higher temperature into your basement. The dehumidifier would be the device to use.

Xringer 06-22-17 08:31 PM

Yeah, venting worked a little last summer,
I guess it was only when the basement temperature was equal or warmer than outdoors..

The Santa Fe is pulling out a lot of water down there..
It smelled better, after a 1/2 hour.. My wife noticed it right away.

After it dries up for a few days, the power run-time should cut back..
Maybe the concrete floor is giving up some dampness. Four sumps can't be helping..

Xringer 07-12-17 11:44 AM

I kinda expected leakage, but not this bad..
 
The unit isn't working very well.. The output hose is showing very low output.
Maybe getting a few oz per hour now. I removed the side panel and used the Freon leak detector.
The drain tray and the inside bottom cover all beeped big time.
After blowing it out with clean air, I rechecked and found every thing okay.
30 seconds later, it detected leakage coming down from above,
where the large HX coils are sealed in.. No way I can get to the leak,
without a major disassembly job.

I'm thinking of trying some sealer.. Not sure how to connect the Ebay
sealant canister to the 1/4" SAE fitting. Seems like a 'pierce' connector
like those used on car AC cans, is needed..

R22, R410A, Pro Seal, Super Stop Leak, Envirosafe, Refrigerant, 4 OZ. CAN | eBay

Xringer 07-12-17 02:07 PM

Here's a video link.. https://youtu.be/IRSEn-3uz6o

jeff5may 07-12-17 09:36 PM

Sounds like it's time to make a decision. I have very little confidence in the stop leak product. It may get you through the summer though.

I chopped up a brand new can tapper this year to use with my gauge set. The truck needed a flush and fill after a compressor burnout and the Saturn blew the thermal fuse embedded inside the magnetic clutch. All of the can taps that had flare (acme) fittings on them were car size and wouldn't fit my home size gauge set. So I bought one of these:
http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znet...CS-CA/image/4/
I put access valve tubes just like the one in your unit on the ends of the hoses.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....6L._SY300_.jpg
Now both halves connect right up to my gauge set.

NiHaoMike 07-12-17 10:02 PM

Put in some UV dye and actually find the exact spot of the leak. Most likely it would be at a brazed joint somewhere.

Xringer 07-13-17 12:28 AM

Mike, I know where the leak is located and could not get to the exact spot, without ripping the HX section apart.. Not something I want to do..

Jeff, I have a brand new can tapper too.. (and a bag of access valve tubes).
Is the car type can tapper really going to work with the R410a leak sealer?

I might need some small clamps for the access valve tubes..:D

Thanks,
Rich

jeff5may 07-13-17 07:56 AM

I can't tell from here, but most of the small "spray paint" cans have the same tops on them. I believe they are 5/16 fittings. 99.9% of the stuff they sell at the HVAC store (Johnstone, United, etc.) has 1/4 inch flare aka acme or the same thing as nitrogen cylinders. The old R12 and R22 "spray" cans had 1/4 inch fittings on them, and when the industry mothballed CFC refrigerants, that's when all of the standards changed. Now you never know what type of fitting is going to be needed until you see it. Even the old fridgie techs carry a universal "fits all" adapter set in their bag. Cuz it sucks when the specs lie.

Xringer 07-15-17 11:08 PM

Added some R410a to the Santa Fe and it's working great.
The low side pressure came up from 40-50 PSI to about 90 PSI.
Couldn't get it over 100 PSI, so I stopped trying and turned off the flow.


I'm buying some of this sealer..

"Product Description

Pro Seal - Up to 4 lb System - AC Stop Leak - Sealant formula developed by NASA for critical systems such as space flights, submarines, ect.
Sealant Can - Compatible will all oils (Mineral, POE, Pag, ect.) and all refrigerants including 410A. Will seal most small leaks in Air conditioning systems. "



R-134a R12 R22 R410A Pro Seal Super Stop Leak Envirosafe, Refrigerant 4 oz can | eBay


I wonder if this stuff will work on a leaky BMW? :o


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