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Xringer 01-26-17 06:06 PM

Refrigerator Maintenance Tips
 
I saw this video on YT and suddenly realized, that we had been cleaning under
the front on the fridge, (per the manual), but Never removed the back panel and cleaned back there..
Our 'New' fridge is 23 years old! (Wife 'guessed' it was about 10 or 12 years old)..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpHM...youtu.be&t=23s

When I took off the back panel (cardboardish), the compressor and fan area
looked a lot like the heat sink area around an Intel 486 CPU that's been running full time since the 1990s..
One massive dust bunny..

We cleaned out everything we could reach, but I fear that white residue on
a copper joint might be from leaking R12..
The fresh food area (bottom section) is in the mid 40s..
I think it's been in the 35F range for decades.. Now, it's too warm..

Temps still aren't down after 24 hours, so I've opened (fully) up a vent that brings Cold air down from the freezer..

If it's still too warm maņana, then I need to start shopping.. :(

pinballlooking 01-26-17 07:56 PM

I do this clean out once a year. Just to help out my refrigerators power usage.

Daox 01-27-17 12:34 PM

Good reminder for me too. Thanks!

Xringer 01-27-17 04:35 PM

I checked my IR pistol on a cup or water with ice cubes, and it displayed 31ish deg F.
So, it should be accurate enough to tell if the old fridge is dying. Plus, cold beer isn't all that cold.
I'm starting to read online reviews. First find that's the size of the old one: WRT138FZDW

where2 01-27-17 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xringer (Post 53179)
When I took off the back panel (cardboardish), the compressor and fan area looked a lot like the heat sink area around an Intel 486 CPU that's been running full time since the 1990s..
One massive dust bunny.

Mine has a snail shaped flat plate coil which in 2002 was a dust bunny after only one year of continuous airborne cat fur. At that point, I fashioned a coarse air conditioner filter out of synthetic filter floss to collect the fur. Now, I just wash the filter like I do with the A/C air handler.

I've had more problems due to defective "automatic defrost controller boards" than anything in my side-by-side. Once the ADC board relay contacts begin to burn out, the freezer coil blocks up with ice and leaves the refrigerator compartment warming up calling for more cooling when the compressor is giving it all it can, running continuously. At that point, I defrost the freezer coil with a hair dryer, and order a new ADC board.

Xringer 01-27-17 08:55 PM

The paperwork says Dec 1994.. Seems like a long time.
Anyways, we found a replacement unit that seems to be in stock..
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Whirlpool-1...White/50285239

In the mean time, I've moved the milk over in front of the cold air vent,
to keep it from going bad too fast..
Got visit Lowes tomorrow, if the rest of the old fridge is still in the mid 40s..

I'm so glad we don't have a cat.. We were cat sitting a while back and
there was a trail of black cat hair all over the house..
In the den, my wife gathered up a pile so big, we could have built another cat.. ;)

creeky 01-27-17 09:25 PM

Is your fridge making an intermittent clicking sound?
Last week we heard this weird clicking. Finally, few days later, noticed that the freezer was melting.
Long story short. New compressor relay and overload ... fridge and freezer are working again.
Easy check. Take the relay out. Shake it. If it rattles. That's your problem. Good luck.

pinballlooking 01-27-17 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creeky (Post 53192)
Is your fridge making an intermittent clicking sound?
Last week we heard this weird clicking. Finally, few days later, noticed that the freezer was melting.
Long story short. New compressor relay and overload ... fridge and freezer are working again.
Easy check. Take the relay out. Shake it. If it rattles. That's your problem. Good luck.

I had this exact same issue about 5-6 years ago replaced it and it is still running strong today.

jeff5may 01-27-17 10:13 PM

Besides the defrost control, the defrost heating elements also open up. The symptom in this case is barely below freezing freezer section and warm fridge section. With the side by side units, this is worse than over and under units. Since cold air falls, the freezer air finds its way to the bottom fridge section much more easily. With the side by side units, the cold air tends to stay in the freezer side when the evaporator turns to a solid block of ice.

Then again, the thing is pretty old. The new ones are shiny and have LED lighting in them and stuff. Most are a lot more energy efficient than the old dogs as well. Durability is another story, as most newer models have solid state controls (rather than gears and contactors) in them. Beware of lightning and power surges...

Xringer 01-28-17 08:30 AM

GE tbx18jatjrwh is almost working..
 
It seems to be running almost perfectly normal. Just like it always has.
Maybe the noise is not as loud.?. Due to the good cleaning of dust bunnies..?.

The only thing odd, is the slightly higher temps..
Now that we have the vent dumping more cold air from the freezer,
the top left side shelf is about 38F, so we've moved the milk to the left side.
Else were, it's a bit cooler, but still in the low 40s..
On the downside of the full-vent setting, the freezer temp are no longer
on the low -negative range, but 8 to 10 degrees warmer. -5 is now 5F..

I guess the freezer temp is fine-tuned by dumping it's cold down below,
with a simple vent.?..

It almost seems like the main temperature control has lost some of it's range. At the low end..

I think we are going to skip the road trip and just watch this thing for a few days.. :o

I wonder if there is a leak that can be detected with the new 'Freon Leak detector'?
Maybe I should pull the back cover off and try some snooping for a leak.?.

where2 01-28-17 09:04 AM

Have you put your Kill-a-watt on it? it would be interesting to know if it ever goes into defrost mode, or if it's energy consumption is much higher than it used to be.

I glued some magnet tape to the back of a wireless digital thermometer display and tossed the remote sensor in my fridge some time ago. The magnetic readout has nice big numbers on it so I can see what the fridge temperature is running, as well as the high/low for the day.

Xringer 01-28-17 09:25 AM

I don't recall the old power usage.. So using the Kill-a-watt might not tell me much..

I don't know how the defrost mode works. Is it possible that it's stuck in defrost?
(There is zero frost in the freezer)..

I like the remote sensor idea. Seems like the range might be short, since the 433 Mhz
signal will have a hard time escaping from the fridge..

MN Renovator 01-28-17 04:21 PM

The fridge and freezer would be much warmer if the defrost coil were turned on while the compressor was running, it would overpower the compressor because they are usually a heater that uses around 500 watts. A defrost timer shuts off the compressor when it runs a defrost cycle. My fridge has a 23 minute defrost interval. Is this a side-by-side, you'll know it's frosted up if you look through the vents on the bottom of the freezer, if the coils are visible you should see if they are coated in ice or not. You normally wouldn't see the frost inside the area where you put your food.

where2 01-28-17 07:39 PM

To manually defrost my side-by-side, you have to remove three screws to pull off an aluminum duct cover at the rear of the freezer cabinet to get to the frosted over internal coil. With the cover on, everything looks fine in the freezer, and frozen things remain frozen. My "too warm" symptom shows up in the refrigerator portion of the cabinet, where the fan in the freezer section pushes the air to keep the refrigerator cold. Cold air from the freezer compartment goes in the top of the fridge cabinet, filters down through the contents, and returns to the freezer compartment at the bottom to begin the cycle again. When the coil in the freezer ices over, the fan in the freezer above the coil cannot draw air over the coil to force cold air into the fridge section to keep it cold. The fridge section gets too warm, the freezer remains plenty cold, and the compressor runs continuously trying to compensate to adequately cool the temperature sensor in the fridge compartment.

Xringer 01-28-17 08:33 PM

I'm getting up to speed now! Defrost is for freezer Coil, not the actual freezer compartment!

I decided to get more interested in the hardware, and hauled the fridge out of it's slot,
and looked closer at the back side. There is a drain S~trap with a little drain tube where
the water from a drip pan underneath the freezer coil, can flow down to a lower catch pan..
I had cleaned out that lower catch pan before the other day, it had stuff
that looked like flakes of deposits of some kind.. But there was no water..

I just checked it and there was not a trace of moisture in that drip pan..
I don't see anyway to get a eyes-on the coil, to see if it's iced up..
It has been rainy earlier this month, but right now the indoor RH is 25%.
According to my digital meters It's 40% in the basement and 70% outdoors.

Is it possible the defroster mode failed and the coil iced-up a few weeks ago?
Maybe the cold air flow is being partly reduced (50%?) by the frost,
and it's not allowing enough cold air to flow down to the main compartment?

With the duct damper full open, the cold air is coming down pretty well.
But not enough.. It is increasing the frozen food temp by about 10F..

If we eat all the food, we can unplug it and see if any water drips down.. :p

I just watched a few repair videos.. Found the 3 most likely (failed) parts on Amazon..
Hope this is not going to lead to a new hobby!

where2 01-29-17 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xringer (Post 53208)
I don't see anyway to get a eyes-on the coil, to see if it's iced up..
It has been rainy earlier this month, but right now the indoor RH is 25%.
According to my digital meters It's 40% in the basement and 70% outdoors.

Is it possible the defroster mode failed and the coil iced-up a few weeks ago?
Maybe the cold air flow is being partly reduced (50%?) by the frost,
and it's not allowing enough cold air to flow down to the main compartment?

With the duct damper full open, the cold air is coming down pretty well.
But not enough..

Looking at your model number: WRT138FZDW, we're talking a top freezer unit with the fridge below it.

There must be some way to remove the cover on the rear of the freezer compartment to get eyes on the coil.

Yes, if the coil is 50% or more blocked, you won't be getting the airflow necessary to move the BTU's inside the enclosed container to where they can make the heat transfer on the coil to be removed. The ice forms an insulator.

Tomorrow, if it is really below freezing in MA, consider placing your freezer articles out on the porch in the shade while you poke around in the freezer compartment. If you unplug the device and keep the fridge door shut, it should maintain the cool factor in the refrigerator compartment. In the meantime, keep poking around youtube looking for videos on how to get to the evaporator fan.

I expect it should look something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7zEunxy70Y

Once you're in that area of the device, you'll be able to see if you're defroster is not functioning properly, or the fan is not running when it should. Either of those issues could be causing your limited flow.

Xringer 01-30-17 11:06 AM

Both fans are running..

I've had the kill-a-volt on this thing for 3 hours, it's going off and on (140w),
but I have not seen a defrost cycle... How often do they normally occur?

Xringer 01-30-17 11:04 PM

Wow, you can find all kinds of stuff on the web..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-defrost

I didn't know if the timer was ever going to click on and run a defrost cycle,
so I kept watching the kill-a-volt for about 6 hours. I became ill, and had to quit.
Feel better now, after a nice afternoon nap..

Maybe tomorrow I'll try to remove temperature control panel cover to see if the timer can be manually advanced..
Looking at the picture of the part, I don't see any manual advance knob..

jeff5may 01-30-17 11:32 PM

It depends. Your model is new enough that it may have a control board and thermistors in it. Then again, it may have (some or all) bimetal switch thermostats and a gear-driven defrost timer in it. Or it could have both.

Either way, if the defrost timer circuit has problems, the unit will never go into that mode. With both, you can force defrost mode to check that it works. The gear timers are usually near the evaporator, and some even have an access hole to stick an allen key or screwdriver, so you can test operation without taking anything apart. The electronic ones have a button or jumper on the control board that initiates defrost. They are easy to get to once you find the board.

Before you do too much, find a repair manual online and skim through it. These units also have a mini manual hidden inside the back cover somewhere, too. It will have a map that tells you where all the "secret" parts are and how to work them for testing.

From your observations so far, it doesn't sound like the unit has lost its charge. Home fridges don't contain enough charge to leak out slowly. If the thing develops anything resembling a leak, its cooling days end quickly.

Xringer 01-31-17 06:54 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Okay Jeff, when I read your post this morning.. I was eager to get up and find that
"access hole", because I remembered there is a small (9mm) plastic hole cap in
the center of the thermostat & vent panel!
Got in there and popped the cap.. Yeah, needed my screwdriver..
It clicked and clicked as I turned CW, then went into defrost mode..
I'm leaving it run for 15 min, to see what happens.. :) Then I'll advance it back to compressor run..

Edit:
The defrost cycle started normally, but the ticking sounds soon stopped..
No water was heard gurgling down into the pan..
Now, it seemed to be working like before.. So we pulled out the fridge and checked the lower pan for water..
No water.. So, maybe the drain tube is frozen over too.?.

Xringer 01-31-17 10:05 AM

Not crazy about working on this stuff!
 
1 Attachment(s)
Not the big Ice mass I expected.. Very little frost.. Used a heat gun on it (up to 70F)
and got about a teaspoon of water in the lower pan..
The heater coil looks okay on the Ohm meter.
I'll see if there is any problem with it in a while, after things cool down, I'll do another manual defrost..
I'll have the Kill-a-Watt on it, to see how much power for how long..
Since there is no frozen food in there, it's cooling down fast..

Later on that day:
It got down to about 25F and I set the defrost mode manually.
It ran at 408w to 420w for until the sensor opened after 13 minutes..
The compressor did NOT come back on, so it wasn't the timer that turned off the heater..
Again, I've advanced the timer to run mode and the freezer is re-cooling..
Putting the food back for now.

Should that manual timer advance 'screw' head slowly rotate as the timer motor runs?

I left it parked in a known position.. Trying to see if it rotates any..
I'm pretty sure it's dead.. But, I want to be sure before ordering a new one..
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V8X487E

jeff5may 01-31-17 12:21 PM

Ok so it has a mechanical defrost timer. When you initiate defrost, a few things happen. The compressor and circulation fan should stop. The defrost heater should energize. With that rig, the evaporator has a defrost termination thermostat wired in series with the heating element(s). Bimetallic klixon switch like in a clothes dryer. Make / break window between 40 and 80 degF.

The defrost box is super quiet like an old school electric alarm clock. The only time you will hear it is when manually advancing it or when the contacts open and close. If it has stripped gears or a tired motor, it will not change modes like it should. So if you advanced it to defrost, it may not ever go back to cooling mode. Then again, it may defrost once and get stuck again in cooling mode. Defrost mode usually lasts half an hour, cooling mode a day or two. Most are wired into the box thermostat, so the timer only runs when the thermostat is calling for cooling.

What I do with these to check the defrost timer is easy. Once you find the "secret" knob, put a timing mark on it. If it makes a few revolutions in a week, call it good. Same thing with the ice maker motor. Just because it moves a little bit in a couple hours doesn't mean it is working completely.

Checking the heater can be done with the kill a watt meter. Advance timer to defrost mode and watch the watts. If there is frost, the element will run for more than a minute or three as frost melts and finds the drain. Once the solid stuff is gone, the heater will cycle quickly until time runs out. If the freezer section is still cold, you may see some steam like a defrosting heat pump. What happens when will tell you as much as poking wires with a voltmeter without taking anything apart.

EDIT: DOH! Should have refreshed my browser before posting! Had errands to run this morning, you already diddit.

Xringer 01-31-17 04:20 PM

Thanks for Refreshing my memory, of what I had just done. :D

I think my manual defrost cleared up the frost, so when I opened it up
this morning, it had not formed much new frost at all.

The "secret" knob has not rotated at all during the last 6 hours.
I've actually been checking it all day, to no avail. It's dead..
I ordered a new replacement timer and will install it next week.
In the meantime, 'Echo' will remind me to do a manual defrost every day.
Leaving the Kill-a-watt inline for now.

pinballlooking 01-31-17 04:36 PM

Is it staying cold now?

Xringer 01-31-17 05:21 PM

After you change the settings, it takes "24 hours" before you see any change..:confused:
The problem is still there as of right now. It's 42F, when it should be down around 35 to 38F.
If it's still staying in the low 40s tomorrow noon (after it's 9:45AM defrost),
I'm going to wondering if it's not just the timer, but the thermostat too..

It's 42F right now, and the compressor is on break.. It will start up later,
I think at around 44F.. I have to check the min-max reading..
It seems like something is bent, keeping it from getting down into the 30s..

These parts aren't cheap.. WHIRLPOOL REFRIGERATOR THERMOSTAT PART# WR9X517 | eBay

Maybe some insulation around the old t-stat, to make it cool down slower..

I'm going to close off the vent that controls the freezer temp,
(back where it used to be set) to make it colder up there..
That will make the compressor run longer, perhaps it will somehow become colder down in the lower compartment..?.
Having that vent wide open, might be causing the air in the fresh-food area to cool too fast, shutting down the t-stat too early.
I've cleared the max-min readings and will keep a close eye on it, to see if it can achieve some new lows.

jeff5may 01-31-17 10:53 PM

The damper knob not completely opening or closing the damper is another common problem with temp control, but it controls freezer destination temp and fridge pulldown rate. More airflow causes less runtime per cycle and the resulting decrease in delta T between cooler and freezer sections. A blocked duct or damper causes a super cold freezer or a unit that runs forever to satisfy the thermostat. Too much airflow and your milk freezes when the icemaker is making ice. Most modern units have ducts that lead supply air to the crisper and beer section, as well as the main box, to annihilate stratification.

The twisty knob thermostat hasn't changed much in decades. The part number of yours will most likely cross reference to a couple that have been around forever. If not, those rare, discontinued NOS parts are like NOS vacuum tubes: the good ones ain't cheap.

Haven't heard much about compressor operation. It does what the thermostat tells it to. If you crank the thermostat to cold, you should be able to make slushy milk and freeze celery in the fridge box. If it doesn't run much, it won't cool much. If it runs a lot and won't get the box cold, you could have a bad door seal.

Since you previously indicated cold freezer temps, I'm assuming the cooling circuit is OK. Cleaning out the filth probably made the evaporator more effective at making frost. Meanwhile, the condenser is running cooler, lowering system pressure and preventing evaporator flooding/warming after compressor shutoff. The faster pulldown rate trips the thermostat faster, causing less overshoot. HMMMM...yup, that's about it for now.

pinballlooking 01-31-17 11:02 PM

Maybe one of these would work for you?
https://www.repairclinic.com/Shop-Fo...ermostat-Parts

Ask him if this one would fit.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...67443&_sacat=0

Xringer 02-01-17 08:26 AM

Houston, do we have a problem?
 
I reset (pulled battery) the max-min display on the sensor at midnight..
At 8:30 AM, the min read 32F and the max read 133F..:eek:
(Milk is still okay).

At midnight, the dot on timer knob had moved a little, towards the
one o'clock position. This morning, it had moved to the 8AM position!:confused:

I wondered (aloud) if the timer is going to start working.. My wife said cancel the timer order..
Was the timer really broke, or just stuck.?. Need more coffee..
Reset and checked the max-min.. Trying again..

Currently the freezer is 3F and below is at 37F. A hopeful sign..

Got snow to clean.. It's only been a week, and it already stinks being 71..

Xringer 02-17-17 09:06 AM

Update: The defrost timer has been working correctly.
Maybe spinning it around so much with a screw driver cleaned it's clockwork..?.
And, the temperature measurements have been okay..
I just scanned them, and today they are marvelous!

So, we are going to put off buying a new fridge for a while.. :)

pinballlooking 02-17-17 09:10 AM

Good deal. Always good to put off a purchase you weren’t planning to make.

where2 02-17-17 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xringer (Post 53472)
So, we are going to put off buying a new fridge for a while.. :)

Now that your existing unit is working properly, you can spend more time researching how energy much new units consume in comparison to your numbers from your Kill-a-watt and pull the trigger if/when one comes into the "reasonable" price range. :thumbup: Or, do the math and determine it may never pay to replace something that is still running. ;)

It's not that I don't like having new stuff, or more energy efficient appliances, I just hate having to pull the trigger when I haven't had time to fully vet the players and watch the pricing for a while to vet out the "fake" sales all the appliance stores seem to run. 35% off appliances (this week only), and yet the sale runs for 8 weeks??

creeky 02-17-17 08:39 PM

Sue and I double on up that!

Since I fixed the fridge its running fine. Research has stopped. Money remains in pocket.

Xringer 02-17-17 09:45 PM

At least I learned a little from this experience.. And, if that coil ices up again,
I'll just spin the clock 20 times and then slowly until it starts defrosting.. ;)

I think we will soon be looking at a lot of medical related expenses, so we need to
slow down on the spending for a while..

jeff5may 02-17-17 11:37 PM

Woo hoo! Another zero dollar repair! It's amazing what kind of stuff that can be done by a skilled set of hands.

Now that you know the root cause of the failure, you can hunt down an inexpensive replacement in your spare time. You never know, the timer may or may not fail again soon. Unless, of course, you would rather install a hand crank on the "secret knob". I'm not anybody's judge.

Xringer 02-18-17 06:46 AM

In my extensive research about 'dust bunnies in the fridge', one of the many factoids
I learned, is that Cat owners are at the highest risk of reduced air flow problems.
Who knows, maybe some dog owners too.?.

vann 03-03-17 07:02 AM

Interesting discussion. I'd like to add this video, there are some useful tips inside:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3duuaAbhLcA

shellbark 05-03-17 09:03 AM

Thanks for sharing this. I need to do this on my fridge.

MN Renovator 03-09-19 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xringer (Post 53272)
At midnight, the dot on timer knob had moved a little, towards the
one o'clock position. This morning, it had moved to the 8AM position!:confused:

My fridge is an 'Estate' by Whirlpool.
The timer is a 10 hour timer on mine, the timer runs whether the compressor is running or not.

The defrost cycle only runs if the refrigerator thermostat is asking for the compressor to run. ..so if the compressor is running and cooling, it will cut off the compressor and start the defrost.
If the compressor is not running, it has a 23 minute 'defrost window' for the defrost cycle to run so if the compressor just shut off and the defrost timer window starts, it might not run defrost if the thermostat doesn't turn it on too.

I imagine it's usually halfway through the defrost window before it normally starts the cycle though. If there isn't a bunch of frost built up, it will run the cycle for 7 minutes until the defrost thermostat shuts it off, then it will wait until the total of the 23 minutes has done by and turn the compressor back on.

Yours is probably very similar.


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