well, in FL it's not cheaper to put in solar, because FP&L hates all things solar.

Easy.
When you need to handle peak load for 4 or 5 hours it's likely cheaper to put in solar panels than it is to build natural gas turbines that are only going to be ran for 4 or 5 hours a day.

HI is a monument to unsustainability. Literally anything would be an improvement over shipping coal or oil 2000 miles to generate power.

They only hate it when regular people have solar.
If they own it they love it.

I'd love to see some numbers to back up that "fact".

California is doing everything they can to make renewable energy go hand in hand with black outs and wild fires.

I think you guys are missing some points here. First, to compare solar, wind etc with fossil fuels you have to base the investment over the lifetime of the generator, such as 20 years to be simple about it. Solar and wind are already at less than $.04/kwh which is cheaper than gas in most places. The big companies have to do this so it is only fair that we do it as well.

Second thing is that we do NOT have 15 years to get out energy house in order. We literally have 10 years before it is too late to reverse it so leaving it to the market alone is not appropriate. The only reason China is leading in nearly every renewable technology is because the govt is forcing them to do it. We have to stop believing the market is the only way.

Thirdly, our idea of cheap power is usually based on coal or gas and they do not add in the environmental factors and cleanup in their numbers. By that measure, solar is cheaper and we should allow for that. We need to understand that perhaps the real, all in, cost of energy is more than what we pay now

It's hard for governments to give up oil and gas because of the revenue streams they provide not just in terms of for the country itself, but also padding their own pocket books. I've read that the fossil fuel industry makes a profit worldwide of about $10,000,000,000 per day. I can't prove that, but it's probably in the ballpark. Who would want to lose that type of money to a new industry? Additionally for those who are able to afford to power their own homes with with renewables, that is revenue that is (at least currently) untaxable.

There are always the people that say something can't be done. Sixty years ago people thought it was impossible to go to the moon until someone said yes we can...and then we did. It is my totally prejudiced opinion that all we need to eliminate the use of most fossil fuels is the person that says yes we can and pushes our country hard in that direction. I also believe that we will never completely eliminate the use of fossil fuels because of how many industries they serve. Almost every computer, car(even if electric), toy, bicycle and device we use today has some plastic in it. Plastic is made almost exclusively from oil and natural gas. Plastics are light weight and pretty durable. Maybe one day someone will figure out a better material to use for our every day lives. OK. Soapbox done.
JJ

The sad truth is everyone was fooled with all this CO2 nonsense while the real destruction from pesticides and other chemicals do real damage among other problems like GMO crops. We have been distracted.

We are at 400ppm CO2, if we go lower then 280ish, all life on earth will end. If anything, we need a bit more CO2.

Don't worry about this CO2 scam. Learn the science and stop using poilitiions and hollywood nut jobs for your knowledge. CO2 has a very small affect on our temperature percentage wise. The sun is what controls our temperature. We are going into a major cooling phase according to NASA as we enter into the next grand solar minimum. Don't be a fool, we need to stop wasting time on the CO2 scam and focus on what is really important like getting rid of Round Up and adjusting our grow zones for the grand solar minimum.

Different fight, same situation on top. Seed saving is outlawed, farmers have to buy seeds from the same company as chemicals. Software has invaded the vehicles, so field repair is costly. Many independent farmers are switching back to old dumb tractors and implements that don't have brain boxes. Most independent farmers have alternate income streams besides farming.

Those farmers need to have the right to repair their tractors.
Just like the did for cars a few years ago.