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roflwaffle 10-23-13 12:58 AM


Originally Posted by Quest (Post 32579)
Folks, one thing worth noting for RE: CFL. If you manage to get it to serve over 1/2 of it's intended service life (e.g. 5 ~6k hrs, assuming that it's capable of up to 10k hrs nominal service life), it would have dimmed by about 30% when compared to it's original (hr zero) state.

My best CFL record kept (with slight mod to the PCB--replaced the vulnerable lytic capacitor with long service life ones) was about 7k hrs (Luminus, bought from costco Canada) before the film capacitor failed. By then the tube already dimmed by 30% or so.

I don't believe LED would suffer from gradual dimming over time but would simply die(flickered and then cut off, or simply cut off completely...all depends on the driving circuitry designs) but should be able to maintain it's brightness throughout it's usable service life.

My 2c's worth.


All the LEDs I've had, both 12V and 110V, also dimmed over their lifespan before dying. One thing I've noticed is that the LEDs will dim more before dying, while the CFLs won't get as dim before dying.

Of course YMMV. I haven't had as much experience w/ leds as cfls.

Quest 10-23-13 02:11 AM


most SMPS-based AC power conversion systems, from all forms of electronic power supply systems such as modern TV sets, DVD players, computer power supplies, laptop power supplies, or even things like line voltage based (AC120V) LED or CFL lightbulbs, they all don't like power surges. Some rather inferior designed SMPS will not tolerate brownouts.

Because of cost concerns, almost all of these CFLs and some LED lights are built with insufficient component operational safety margin. If they are to use in 120V AC line, typically, they would simply put in some cheep, borderline voltage components (e.g. 200V DC electrolytic capacitors, etc.) that will fail when there's a line voltage swing or surge.

Also: they use some epoxy dipped mylar based film caps in most CFL bulbs just because they (those film caps) are cheaper than proper film cap types (like polypropylene type)...insulation breakdowns due to heat is an eventual affair that will happen to all these CFL bulbs one way or another.

Of all the bulbs I've dissected so far, only a small handful of them tends to be extremely well built: GeeEee CFLs seems to be ok (although I do have 1 failed on me shortly after purchasing, and the vendor refused to replace due to lack of receipt); FEIT is generally ok but I also heard/been told about inconsistent quality and durability also; I'd stay away from generic ones including some re-branded ones such as Sylvania CFLs...I had quite of few of them failed on me prematurely.

As far as LED bulbs I'm currently using Ikea ones, Philips A19 and also Cree 40Watt equivalent. Too soon to tell which ones will last for they are all sealed nicely and I don't feel right to dissect them to perform a reliability assessment.


randen 12-04-13 07:03 AM

ROI for changing to LEDs
1 Attachment(s)
Posted May 5 2012

We have a lot of track lighting that was using MR 16 metal halide 12 v mostly 20w and some 50w. I had replaced them about a year ago with some Chinese LED 3 w super white. The lighting is amazing and about the same lumins as the 20 w they replaced. Of the 20 pcs I had purchased 2 had quit. Oh well I suspected they may not last. I still intend to buy a bunch more for some other fixtures. I like the super white lighting. Most of our lighting in the house is the 12v MR-16 powered by some large format batteries that are waiting for solar PV install. For now they are charged via a high end charger powered by the grid. Running the calculations it will take 20 years for the lights ROI. But that is at todays dollar. The next time we have an increase in the cost of energy that ROI time will shorten. Just hope they will stand the test of time.


( As mentioned I had purchased more LEDs only the additional LEDs of greater wattage 3w to 6w and move the 3 w to other areas of the house. But for the calculations lets use the worst case, the higher wattage)

I'm not sure on how I came up with the ROI (20 years) on the LEDs must have been sleep deprived.!!
Nov 1st,2013 has marked the day of increase for the cost of electrical energy. The cost which includes the delivery charge, taxes, line loss, debit recovery charge etc. so the bottom line is $0.198/Kwh. before Nov 1st $0.17/Kwh

As we know cost will always increase so how is our return of investment now.

I believe I had calculated the ROI on $0.13/Kwh but I have to admit. I wasn't very careful and didn't put pencil to paper. The reasons I wanted to change to LED was, going on just the sizable power reduction (20watt to 6watt) and wouldn't have to change them out for 20 yrs.

As this price increase had me check back on my ROI and as like the stock market you need to be in long term??!!:confused:

Here are some numbers:

LED cost $6.00 MR-16 white LED 6 watt 12 volt. ( my home has about 40 of these on track lighting)

Cost saving:
20watt Hal - 6watt LED = 14watt reduction
14 watt x 4hrs/day average = 56 watt/day
56 watt= 0.056Kwh
0.056kwh x 365 days = 20.4 Kwh/year
20.4 Kwh x $0.13 (2009 price)= $2.65 savings per year per LED.
20.4 kwh x $0.198 (2013 price)=$4.04 savings per year

{$4.00/yr savings/light x 40 lights $160.00 per year savings} Who knew its a lot better than the Stock market!!!:thumbup:

Based on these figures ROI of late is 1.5 yrs. (getting shorter with every cost increase) and of coarse the approximate time for the duration of illumination of 4 hrs is just that. BUT still the cost savings are remarkable!!:cool:


AC_Hacker 12-05-13 01:12 AM


Originally Posted by randen (Post 33721)

You said that these bulbs are bright white, is that right?

I see some being sold as:
  • 2700K to 3200K (warm white)
  • 4000K to 4500K (natural white)
  • 5700K to 6500K (cool white)

Which kind are you using?

and it looks like you are using COB lights, yes?


randen 12-05-13 05:26 AM


Yes these are COB lights at 6000k 12v 6 watt. They are performing well however a few 2-3 are flickering. I'm not sure yet if its something with the pin connections in the socket or something in the LED itself.

They are all over the E-Bay sold though different suppliers. In all likelihood manu. by the same company. I'm sure I paid about $6.00 ea. shipping included. Wow!!

I bough extra just in-case a few die prematurely. It wouldn't look to good if I had to mix and match on these rail light fixtures.

I have yet maybe three fixtures in the house sporting those antique globe type heating devices. Outside two fixtures with metal halide. Maybe this spring a change out after the snow leaves. I've seen some very nicely priced LED Flood lites.


AC_Hacker 04-01-14 08:51 AM

Transformers or Switchers??

Originally Posted by randen (Post 33742)
...Yes these are COB lights at 6000k 12v 6 watt...


I have quite a few LEDs around the house and I think they are just great!

I have at the same time been seriously going through all of my wall-wart power supplies and getting rid of the transformer type (heavy ones) and keeping only the high efficiency switchers.

So, I'm curious if you have paid attention to the power supplies for your LEDs? Are they transformers or are they switchers?

Seems like an inefficient power supply could nullify the efficiency gains of LED lighting.


Daox 04-01-14 10:05 AM

Good point AC Hacker. Those transformers typically pull a few watts 24/7. Definitely not good for efficiency.

randen 04-01-14 12:01 PM

AC & Daox

I'm using two switching type power supplies. I think they were approx. $12.00 from China free shipping. They are rated at 10A each with overload protection. Really quite efficient.

Bad news to report the cob LEDs aren't lasting so well I've lost 6 pcs so not a good deal. Oh well life's not over yet. I may find some LEDs that will go the distance of 30 yrs.


NeilBlanchard 04-01-14 04:39 PM

All my LED's are 120v so whatever circuit they have inside 'em.

randen 06-29-14 10:06 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Well there's your problem.!!!

I'm reluctant to believe anyone in the world that would possess any knowledge of how to manufacture a LED modual would allow this to happen during manufacture!!

I had purchased a large quantity of these COB LEDs 6 watts They look very nice when first installed then begin to flicker from which they proceed to dim or go dead.

I have so many irons in the fire I'd just change them out and chaulk it up to more ______'s crap!!!

One MR16 LED had dropped on the floor and came apart. Looked inside, Couldn't believe my eye's!!! ONE small drop of heat-sink compound and the LED wafer was actually not contacting the heat sink IT WAS HANGING ON THE WIRES!!!


I Guess I'm going to slowly take them apart and either epoxy or silicon the wafer onto the heat-sink like it should have been done during manufacture.

Gary Gary had found silicon to work well with the flat plate solar panels for heat transfer. I like epoxy.

Anyone like to chime in??


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