some price differences between suppliers
 

For kicks I decided to look into a small enphase based solar setup for my house. I was thinking start with a 1kwh setup and go from there.

I'm in canada and there aren't a lot of dealers/suppliers but a few have online stores.

This place is only a couple of hours drive away from my house.
EA Energy Alternatives Ltd. - Grid Intertie
I was actually looking at their 1.3 kw system on that page until I saw the $9195 price tag. I'd also pay 12% tax on that unless it's tax exempt which may be possible. I found another canadian place this time in ontario and it's ~1 kw system was also in the $9000 range.

For kicks I checked wholesale solar and their 940watt system
Enphase Energy Expandable Gridtie Solar Power Systems
is $3215 and I was quoted shipping of $309 to my house. so $3524 and I could have a 940 watt system. That's almost 1/3 the price. Yes I still need to take currency conversion and taxes/duty at the border into account but that's not going to work out to 300%...

Anyways I thought I'd share some numbers. The local markup on this stuff is insane.

yikes. 4$ a watt still sounds pretty expensive to me. I guess I'll jump on the solar PV train in a couple years when they get cheaper. It's tempting though, isn't it?

$4/watt for a complete system is a little high. I see whole sale advertises systems down to about $1.80/watt but at that point you're getting into a 11,750 watt system which should produce double what I currently need. and I hope to cut my usage in half.

Right now reduction is a better goal for me then producing power. We're a tiered system and at roughly 500-500 kwh/month the rate jumps. lowest tier is 6.4 cents/kwh. next tier is just shy of 10 cents/kwh Every little bit above that line really hurts. So far every single price increase has come to the second tier. It's climbed by almost 2 cents/kwh in the last 3 years and more increases are already scheduled.

I've previously done the measurements on hotwater usage and I'm currently tracking electric usage daily. I average about 9kwh/day in hotwater use. Now that the sun is out and I'm no longer heating the house I average 19 kwh/day of power used. So since it's sunny anyways, I can easily knock 9 kwh/day off of my usage. That will reduce my bills to about 300 kwh a month easily keeping me away from that upper tier.

Since I'm bitching about the industry

a 235 watt astroenergy solar photovoltaic panel is 65"x39" of high grade silicone in a frame weighing 44 lbs.

a AET model AE-21 flatpanel solar collector is 85"x35" of some copper pipe, copper flash and insulation in a glazed aluminum box weighing 74 lbs.

The completely impossible for me to make high tech panel costs $290
The one I could make a reasonable copy of in my carport after shopping at home depot costs $641.

the cheaper one has a 25 year warranty. the other a 10....

the builditsolar 1k systems make total sense but since they aren't certified I can't install one legally. Commercial systems are massively overpriced and never reach payback before they're expected to fail but are my only legal option.

I just got a bid from two different people to have a 2kw system installed on my house (total installed cost, I just write the check!) for $8,000 or $4 per watt installed cost for a grid tie system using 100% USA made panels with a 25 year warranty, panel cost was $1.35 per watt for USA made panels, at that price why would you buy something from a company in China that might not be around tomorrow???
My figures say that at $4 per installed watt, it's less then a 15 year pay back or 6.6% interest and with current interest rates not keeping up with inflation that seems like a great deal! current plan is to have a system installed next summer, both my co-home-owner and I work part time jobs so we figure there is no way we can't afford it, unless of course you are bad at math!

When are they expected to fail? I've heard of panels that are now 50 years old being moved to new locations and still producing their rated output or more after 50 years, what's the pay back on coal?

I meant commercial solar hotwater systems. Installed all said and done I'm looking $5,000-$6,000. I'd save about $250 a year and the components have at best a 10 year warranty.

Solar electric the panels are amazing for how well they work/hold up. I'm not sure about the life expectancy of the inverters and such but it wouldn't surprise me if they break even within their lifetimes.

If the inverters break or fail then wouldn't they be replaced under the same 25 year warranty that they have? I guess at that 25 year mark there is that chance that they will fail, but just like PV panels, the price of inverters is dropping every year so if you have to replace one in 25 years it's going to be that much better and that much cheaper.

I didn't realize that you were talking about heating hot water, you might try running the numbers to see if PV running a heat pump water heater would be a cheaper option then having solar hot water panels.

Stryder 3700 Wrote:The local markup on this stuff is insane.

Being a fellow Canadian I share your pain. After intensely working on becoming more efficient I had found the cost of items grossly inflated here in Canada by our local suppliers. Case in point: I was sourcing a fan driven kick space heater for a bedroom over the garage. Found a Beacon/Morse and started calling around. In the USA a Mich supplier offered the unit for $390.00. Here in Canada I was directed to not one but a tier of three wholesalers and distributers. The end result The same model # kick space heater $830.00 from a local suppier. REALLY GUYS !! I would suppose all the sales-people I spoke with needed their 30% mark-up.

Like Styder3700 I'm exploring the Solar PV and Ontario like some States is offering a spectacular incentives but the initial cost. WOW To see such a cost difference between US suppliers and Canadian suppliers and our dollar is about even. I get it, we need to support our economy to, but I get the feeling some are trying to fill their pockets on the first two sales.

Randen