Are the sub $300, 400w wind generator from china/ebay worth it?
 

http://www.jinlantrade.com/ebay/windgenerator/IMG_1.jpg

Are the sub $300, 400w wind generator from china/ebay worth it?

I personally don't think so. Wind power isn't something that I consider necessarily easy and for most people and most places it doesn't make sense. I'd say if you don't already have a whole bunch of wind farms in your immediate area, you probably don't have a good enough wind resource. You also need to factor in the need for a 100+ foot pole for best wind access, land access(most locales require you to have a diameter of ground clearance exceeding the pole height), the permitting, neighbor issues, dealing with high maintenance of a consumer wind product, safety issues, and other factors.

I think going with a cheap low powered unit is the wrong way to go when it comes to all of the effort involved. In the mean time, I'd do what a pro does and install a manometer on top of a pole at least 50 feet tall to measure and record your wind resource to get a good idea of whether or not you have the wind it takes for wind power generation at your site to be worth it. Solar is a much easier because you make sure you don't have shade and pretty much anywhere works if you have that and a place to mount the PV and good grid-tie legislation or support from your local power company.

That is a pretty small generator. Height and swept blade area means more energy output, but that is barely 2 feet in diameter?

Does it have an inverter onboard? Or is it DC output?

A wind turbine, to produce useful amounts of power, ought to be 30 feet or more above anything within 500 feet, and typically should be on a tower at least 100 feet tall, to avoid turbulence and to get up where the wind is stronger. The expense of putting a small turbine on an adequate tower can exceed the cost of the turbine itself. And, the experience with these Chinese turbines, large or small, indicates that they are mostly decorative toys.

There are excellent maps available which give reasonably accurate wind speed information based on years of collected data from many sources, including cell towers, airports, and other locations with anemometers, and these maps can help you figure out if it is even worth considering a wind turbine. One such map (not the best, but usable) is at Wind Powering America: Residential-Scale 30-Meter Wind Maps

Solar panels (PV) aren't as sexy, but IMHO, they are a better investment.

There is a guy on YouTube who has done some investigation of wind power
and posts some pretty informative videos.
Fearlessthinker - YouTube

Absolutely! All you need is a spot with no (or minimal) shade, which is easy to determine, to get good results from PVs--and then enjoy the energy for decades with no or minimal maintenance. Wind makes sense if you have good wind, a quality turbine, and a TALL tower, and the cost per kilowatt hour of energy produced goes down as the size of the turbine goes up.

With the falling prices of PVs, solar electricity is almost a no-brainer.

But keep in mind that in general, when the sun isn't shining, the wind is likely to blow, so the two technologies are complementary, not in competition.

-AC

We have nearly no wind resource where I live in north Alabama, but I've often considered a wind turbine. During the late fall through early spring months when PV production is at its lowest levels, we do have a number of days with pretty strong {for our area} winds.

It's never been about the cost of the turbine, and I don't need to get zoning approval or permission or even a permit to put one up. But the cost of a 100' {minimum} tower that can be lowered for turbine maintenance is just too much for me. My thoughts go to a methane digester after I finish daydreaming about the wind turbine:rolleyes:...........

If you want to do wind, seeing that this is a forum filled with people who do things themselves, I thing you should look Hugh Piggot (name might be misspelled) and the brake drum wind turbine. It is a good project.

Totally agree with Mikesolar. I have Hugh's 200 edition brakedrum windmill book. Its perfect for DIY. And he has an updated version available online that uses a different, even easier to build, generator design.

Over at Airborne Wind Power, (kites) Dave Selsam is always telling horror stories about generators wrecked by high wind, but he's in Mohave. In general, cost per watt hour goes down as size goes up. If you are off-grid, and seriously simple in style, a small, high-quality could be enough, but you have to get it above the tree tops for good results, and the vibration is too much for a rooftop you live under. Then, you still need batteries, etc. If you can arrange for a water tower or some other 2-level water ponds, I'd be inclined to use wind to pump water up, and get electricity on demand from a hydro powered generator.

David,
There are better designs out now than the brake drum wind mill. Hugh has newer books with more efficient, longer lasting designs.

Rob

Does anyone have any links to online designs? I know there is Otherpower | Make Your Electricity From Scratch! that has some good stuff.

I have been monitoring the wind on my front field for several years now and I definitely have enough wind to get a benefit, especially in the winter when the sun isn't out very long and the trees are bare.

Remember, wind compliments the sun as someone else said here. They work together. Germany has been installing wind on its north shore to work with their PV.

You can get respectable power at lower elevations BUT you have to account for it. Instead of taking out a life insurance policy and kissing the family good bye every time you have to climb a hundred foot tower why not put two wind mills up on shorter poles? That's what I'm doing, so I get a little less power, I can live with it.

Wind is not like PV. you can't just put it in and walk away, it needs care and that means lowering the tower at least once a year. I plan on putting my towers up 40 feet, that's all. I have a monitor up about 18 feet and get good wind. Yes, there's more shear but if you have it in an open field shear is reduced.

The Chinese mills are modeled after the South West Air's. I bought two Air's several years ago but never installed them. The thing about wind is that you can only get so much out of swept area, you eventually hit the Betz Limit and can only extract so much from the wind relative to span.

The thing you have to watch is the wind speed some of these small mills get there "400" watt figure from. Most times it's around 10 or 12 m/s or about 25 to 30 mph. How many times do you get 25 mph winds? My monitor only hits 25 to 30 several times a year AND I'm in a good wind area, a company came in a few years ago wanting to put mills in because the wind is that good.

I suggest you monitor your wind for several months to a year and go look at the excellent charts for wind in your area before you invest in a windmill. If you go to South West's site they have wind maps and you can actually see your property.

Rob

Daox,

Several years ago a friend of mine did some wonderful work with VAWTs (vertical access wind turbines). They have gotten a bad shake from guys like Hugh Piggot but they have some good points, especially for DIYers.

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Ed Lenz is a very knowledgeable guy, we were on Otherpower for awhile but, as nice, and knowledgeable as those guys are, the are in the business of selling magnets. Their design happens to use twice as many magnets as conventional designs.

I use conventional designs (hopefully I'll get one up here at some point) and what I do is go to motor repair shops and ask them to save me large fields of burnt out motors that i strip and convert to wind and water mills.

The other mistake people make is attempting to build a windmill with too large a span right off the bat. I suggest building a couple of small mills on short poles to learn about them first. The logistics and stresses of a 15 or 20 foot span mill is huge! Try starting with a 6 to 7 foot mill first or even Ed's design of a VAWT. Have some fun with it first, you'll build a much better mill your second or third time out.

Rob

We're in an decent wind area, Oklahoma of all places. Yeah, some of the highest winds on record have been recorded in Oklahoma. Yellow on the map linked above, not as strong as out in Western Oklahoma where all the windmill farms are though. Wind speed at time of posting 20mph/26gust which isn't out of the ordinary.

Not sure I'm ready to bite on a Windmill though even if considering are on top of a hill (TV towers less than 1/4 mile from us). Solar is a no-go due to the frequent hail storms in our area. Something to keep in mind, areas with consistent high winds are also subject to severe weather.

I've seen some pretty big stuff hit modules. I wouldn't be especially worried about hail especially if you tilt the modules when the weather predicts it. Modules are made tough, I've seen mine rock in 40 mph winds with no bad results or even a couple of feet of snow and ice on them. If you're worried about high winds mount the modules in a single row lower to the ground in short runs and fix the angle optimally for your area. Another trick I use is to leave a small gap between each module (3 or 4") to reduce the surface area the wind hits.
If you're getting 10 m/s wind speeds consistently then you should seriously consider the windmill option.

rob

Here's what the hail storm of 2010 did in our neighbourhood, there were several holes in my roof the size of that in the 1st photo. That would be one tough solar panel not to have broken in that storm !!

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1390233400

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1390233400

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1390233400

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1390233400

Whoa! Straight through the decking!! That's insane! Is that OSB?
Architectural shingles won't save you there.

Here's the question, your homeowners insurance would cover the roof but what sort of coverage do you need to protect a solar system?

Yes, holes through OSB decking in several spots. It would have KILLED anybody that was out in the storm unprotected, but we didn't have any injuries from it. You saw where it fractured the wind shield in the neighbours car? Architectural shingles went back on the roof, may help with a minor hail damage. Not sure about insurance for the panels, be we got a nice little hike after the storm went through. We're at about $1,300/yr already !!

The 2013 hail storm did $6,000 worth of damage to my truck:

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1390233518

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1390233518

Then there was an Ice storm of 2013:

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1390233551

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1390233551

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1390233551

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1390233551

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1390233551

And the Tornado that finished off the tree, at least our house was spared. Some of the neighbours weren't as lucky...

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1_070308_0-jpg

Think I'm risking solar panels or a windmill that would have to be there for 10-20yrs in order to pay for themselves? I think not...

Your little tree had a hard short life, rest in pieces tree.
I suspect your in a mobile home awaiting lift off ?
Get the hell out that place lol

There were a few brick houses just like mine that DID achieve lift off!! Mobiles homes didn't stand a chance. That's what storm shelters are for. The cost of living here is one of the lowest in the nation.

I took a look at the picture of the roof. First, shingles have no resistance to moving objects so it's up to underlayment, how thick is that OSB? It looks very thin, that's a very poorly constructed roof. In the North East we have a 40# sq./ft code. The garage built in 2006 runs 16" on center with 5/8 exterior plywood underlayment. That hail would very likely not penetrated my roof.
What's your roof code? Did other people in your neighborhood have that kind of roof damage?

Also I recommended tilting the modules when weather centers predict storms. That's not to say that hail wouldn't damage modules but there are measures and I'm sure there are people in your state with PV systems.

How often do you get storms like that? It seems to me that roof codes would not permit your roof if that was the normal condition.

Rob

No it's not!

Wow that is some big hail. Did your plastic slide survive? It looked good in the picture.

The "cost of living" may be low, but the cost of coping with the hazards of living there is very high, not only monetarily, either.

-AC

Exactly my point!
Rob

For those of you that have not followed Oklahoma weather events, Moore Oklahoma has been one of the hardest hit..

The average of tornado hits, here in the bull's-eye (central Oklahoma), is about one tornado per sq mile every 400 years. Moore has been directly hit at least three times since 1999.


Steve

The old roof was builder grade, note that the new roof looks different. ALL the roofs in the entire neighbourhood were replaced. Roofing companies were putting up signs at the entrance of the neighbourhood like they were running for elected office...

Oddly the fibreglass slide didn't suffer a bit of damage. Neither did the deck or the playground.

Off Topic...
 

This thread went off topic at post #16.

-AC

Wind Currently 25/32

To get back on topic, I am just a couple score of miles north of Servicetech and I don't see wind power as viable, but not because of weather. Just the cost . . .

The return on investment (ROI) is just SO much faster with PV panels compared to wind.

I am in the process of getting quotes on panels and I have told sellers of the hail issue here - and they just shrug and insist that the panels have a 20 - 25 year life guarantee. I need to look closer as "prorated use" or other deductions will clearly dampen my enthusiasm.

The small wind powered machines are popping up like mushrooms across Europe (roof install, typically), but they also have kWhr rates that would scare us in the USA to death. Can you even comprehend 40 cents per kWhr (Denmark)?

Steve


Steve

Are you on OG+E Smarthours? If so, use 18 cents per KWH for your ROI calculations for summer weekdays 2-7pm. Smarthours and solar work great together since peak output of the panels are when rates are at peak. When the sun goes down after 7pm rates are at 5.5 cents. If you could reduce your 2-7pm weekday use down to where the solar was handling the load you bill would be cut almost in HALF since you wouldn't be buying any peak priced electricity.

Servicetech, sadly, no.

I am a defined customer of CREC, the electric rural coop out of Stillwater. Right across the street are OG&E residential lines and customers, but on MY side of the street, I must use CREC.

CREC did put in a smartmeter and I can interrogate it on a daily basis to get a 24 hour kWhr consumption, but they don't offer too much else. I did get a $750/ton rebate from them for a GT heat pump.

Went to the CREC annual meeting to get them to think about time of use metering, but didn't get anywhere . . .

Steve

Steve,
I've always said that PV was a much better option than wind.
With that said wind does have some good points, probably it's biggest is its ability to compliment PV, especially on those cloudy days when the sun isn't out, usually the wind is blowing. There have been graphs done on this and Germany has put them off its north shore to help supply power.

I'm going to build my own because I cant justify the price of buying one. Then there's the tower, wind pros will tell you that you have to get the tower up 80 feet but putting a 300 lb object up 80 feet is not my idea of a fun weekend! Then there's taking it down every year for maintenance because as most of you know, unlike PV, windmills are mechanical and mechanical things break and need attention.
My thinking is that instead of one windmill up 80 feet, I'll put up a couple of 10 footers up 40 feet or so. The cost of making the mills shouldn't be too bad and I'm good with winding armatures, machining and welding parts. I'll TIG the housing (aluminum) to keep the weight down and see how it goes. Anyway that's my summer project along with rebuilding my Elec-trak.

Sorry for any thread drift.

Rob