$600 SEER 15 or $1,000 SEER 23
 

Window units need to go. They are too small, don't cool well enough and are a security hazard as I live in the hood.
The window unit is an on/off 6,000BTU unit. It barely cools the bedroom on hot days.
I am going to get a split unit. I am leaning towards getting the more expensive 240v powered $1,000 inverter unit.
Best I can figure if I only used the more expensive air conditioner during the summer it would pay for its self in 2 years as compared to buying the $400 cheaper unit. Using the heat pump for heating during the winter, even better it may pay for its self in one year.

I would go for the higher SEER.

Check these guys out $1034
FREE DELIVERY AVAILABLE
27 seer.
Mini Splits by Gree
GREE TERRA 9000 BTU 220V 27 SEER = $ 1034 + TAX
I have three of these and really like them.

Other well know people have them also.
Tractor supply
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pro...m?cm_vc=-10005

Whats the energy savings between a 23 versus 27 SEER?
9,000btu would work.

23 SEER unit
Gree VIREO 9,000 BTU Ductless Mini Split Air Conditioner w/ Inverter, Heat Pump, Remote & 50' Lineset (115V) - Single Zone Systems - Ductless Mini Split Systems - Heating & Cooling

103 Estimated Annual Cooling Cost

27 SEER unit
GREE Terra 9,000 BTU Wall Mounted Ductless Mini Split Heat Pump System R410A 208-230 VAC - Single Zone Systems - Ductless Mini Split Systems - Heating & Cooling

88 Estimated Annual Cooling Cost

It is only $15 a year savings. But the 27SEER unit has more options like quite mode when you sleep.
More fan options 1 degree temp chang.


Submittal Data
http://resource.comfortup.com/is/con...n_subs?fmt=pdf

http://17uo7e27w1attiybs22of10v.wpen...30V1A-V3.0.pdf

I like the sound of quiet mode since it will be in the bed room where my wife who works night shift sleeps during the day.

My boy uses the quite mode at night. I also have the same unit in my bedroom and I never use it.
The low setting is pretty quiet. We don’t hear it at night. My room gets hit with direct sun all day and badly in the afternoon. I will turn mine up in the afternoon but by 6:00 I can turn it back to auto. This is just when we have these 95-100 degree days. My boys both leave them on auto fan all day.

The LG mini splits in the living room cool really well but the temp adjust 2 degrees at a time.
one setting is a little to warm the other setting is a little cool. (not as bad as forced air system)
The Gree I have adjust one degree at a time it is much simpler to get the exact temp you want.

Higher SEER usually are the inverter driven ones, and are quieter.

Buy a dozen or so 20 mm 120V MOVs from Mouser or other supplier and put in your disconnect box and at your breaker. Before I did that, son's Klimaire inverter unit reset every few months due to power line transients where he is.
reset = shutdown and required breaker cycling to reset automatic latch off.

Junkhound

Tell us more specifics for these MOVs. 120V and not 240V? Does one go on each 120V circuit?

Thanks,

Steve

I installed my first Gree mini split 10/18/2013 and LG unit right after that have not reset them once. Maybe my power is different I am the last house on a very long utility line.

Since I have solar the voltage would stray more than people that don’t have solar at lease during the day.

Yeah I keep 130v rms AC on hand and stick them in side stuff as I build and modify. I use them to protect electronics, such as when I built my entertainment stand I put them in the built in electrical distribution system, or to protect power factor correction capacitors in welding machines and air compressors.

What I do with 240 volt machines (welders, air compressors and plasma cutter) is wire a 130v MOV from each line to ground.

I was thinking about it some today and if I go with a 1 ton unit in the bed room I can leave it off all day. Right now my wife insists on leaving the window unit running 24 hours a day. She pays the power bill so I let her do what she wants.
If I can put in a split that can cool off the room kind of fast she says leaving it off is alright.

What size is your bedroom?
I have two units in smaller bedrooms and one in a very big bedroom.
The 9K and the 12K units have the same outdoor unit just different programming.
So I would put in the 9k more efficient unit in and maybe adjust it a couple degrees between day and night.
You will save more that way. These inverter units can hum along using very little energy.

Yep, what OilPan said about the MOVs, from each 120V line to CHASSIS.
I go by the very shortes tlead length, breaker or disconnect output direct to box metal - clean off the paint.

If you use GFCI breakers, the MOVs may draw 1 mA, so GFCI is more sensitive as already has a 1 mA GFCI current draw.

I am going to use a 240v split unit. I don't not believe SquareD QO has 2 pole GFI breakers.

The bedroom is around 300 to 400 square feet.
It can get to around 0'F and the wind blows hard in winter so that is one reason I am over sizing it a little.

I went with a 9,000btu 25 seer 240v split.
Should be here Saturday or Monday.
Think I will install it by running a 10/3 wire along the base board, installing an outdoor rated QO rv power panel to act as both a junction for the split and as a welding power source.
Then I will put the outside unit on a concrete pad.

Bottom line is that the units never really shut off. it is the on and off cycles that kill the bills. When just idling they do not draw much current.. But anytime you start a motor it kicks a huge current spike .. if you do this 100 times a day it really hits your electric bill. What sort of amazes me is that we have not seen the major ac companies come out with a retrofit outside unit that runs as an inverter style and change out the inside coil as needed with something along the lines of a cap tube

Sounds like a good unit.

More details where did you get it?
What model brand
Care to share the cost.
This is all good info for others making the same choices.

It's an off brand senville with a Toshiba compressor off eBay straight out of Compton for $990.
Also picked up a cheap manifold gauge and 2 stage vac pump. All I had before was my jerry rigged setup with a air powered vac pump and some lines, an automotive vacuum gauge and a 200 psi well water pump gauge.
For pulling out a large volume of air the air powered pump still wins but only draws about 1 inch of mercury away from an absolute vacuum.

A place about 1 hour away from me stocks and sells those. You will have to let us know your thoughts on these after you get it installed.

I got the manifold gauge set and vacuum pump in.
Its like a little hvac starter kit. The only thing it didn't come with is a beat up old white van, some meth and a criminal record.
The split unit should be here Monday. It all depends on if fedex decides to drop it off. They wont drop something off until the day its due to be delivered. They will ride around with something in the back of their truck for 2 days, drive right by my house both days and not drop it off. The estimated delivery was aug 12-19, so they should drop it off Monday.
Going to go pick up some 10/3 wire today and find an L14-30 plug to add to my air conditioner disconnect box. The L14-30 is not for the air conditioner.

L14-30 plug for a generator hookup.

The L14-30 can be for a generator but I have an L14-30 extension cord for my generator that has an L14-30, 10-50 and 5-20 receptacles on it (each 5-20 is wired to its own line) to use the generator to power pretty much anything. Now I will be able to use that everything adaptor with utility power.

FedEx freight called today and say that they will deliver it tomorrow.

I dug the hole for the concrete pad, made a form, made steel reinforcements out of rebar and scrap metal bed frame, pounded two 18 inch bed frames into the ground and welded the steel rebar to the stakes.
All I need to do when the unit comes in is open it up figure out where the holes for the feet are so I can weld up 4 stainless steel bolts to metal straps then weld the straps to the steel base.
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1471571161
This might be over kill.

It finely came in. This thing is huge. It says 9,000BTU on the box but the out door unit weighs some where between 70 and 100lb. The place where the shipping weight was printed was torn off.
It weighs so much you really don't want it hanging off the side of your house.
The heat exchanger surface area is likely at least 4 times what you see with a 5,000BTU window unit.

The concrete base took about 180 pounds of concrete (dry weight) to fill the form.
I had to modify the form a little bit, two 80 pound bags would have worked but I widened it about 2 inches when the thing finely showed up and I saw how big it is.

Here is my little DC welder convert still chugging along. Used this to weld most everything together.
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1471656735

I used the packaging to find the bolt positions. I used 5/16 inch stainless eye bolts because that's what I had on hand.
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1471656735

The new concrete pad with 5/16 threads sticking out.
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1471656735

Cant wait to replace the old junk.
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1471656735

The ebay add and the manufacturer technical data are saying 2 different things. The manual is saying the max amp draw is 9 amps and to fuse for no larger than 15 amps.
The ebay add said the max amp draw was under 6 amps and that's why I ordered some 10 amp 2 pole square D QO breakers.
I was going to put it on a 10 amp breaker Guess I still can.
I'm thinking the only time it will draw any where near 9 amps is below freezing when the electric heater kicks on.
Looks like the electric heater kicks on around freezing and the heat pump gives up trying to pump heat at +5'F.
I don't think the 10 amp breaker will over heat at 9 amps, being the only one in the box and I believe it will only see max power draw below freezing.

To get power from the outside square D QO junction box I think I will run 14/3 SJ cord.

Oil Pan,

I would advise using 12/3 wire. The 14/3 has too much resistance drop at high current. Besides, the cost of 12 G wire is just a tiny bit more than 14 G. Yes, I know that 14 G will "meet code", but code is a minimum standard.

Used to employ 14 G where permitting and code allowed it. An electrician had a serious talk with me years ago and showed me the changes in current that were caused by just a few tight bends in 14 G wire (like in the box where it is hooked up). After that, I have never used 14 G.

Steve

Whenever I run my own wires, I always try to oversize them just in case. You never know what crazy changes will happen in the future. Plus I'm not paying an electrician.

The 10 amp breaker sounds a little too close for my comfort. The rule i use is oversize the breaker 20 percent or so to avoid nuisance trips during brown outs, spikes, peaks, etc. You can push your luck and may get away with no problems, but you will never find out until the dead of a cold winter night. From experience, I don't trust new equipment until I see it work reliably for quite a while.

I read the manual some more. 9 amps is just the name plate rating. Looks like it normally uses around 6 amps at 240v like I originally thought. They put 9 amps on the name plate but that is only for 208V systems, as in 2 legs of 120v 3 phase. Other wise that would be one heck of a brown out.
I found a partial roll of 12/3 SJ so that is what I will be using.

Oh and I'm wiring 10/3 triplex (yes 2 hots, neutral and ground, 4 wires total) to run from the main breaker box the outside A/C box so I can plug in a welder or plasma cutter to that circuit.

^SEE WHAT I MEAN?^

Oil pan is already planning on running auxiliary equipment through the dedicated A/C unit branch.

What if?

Oil pan 4, I really like your welder. The switches make much more sense than paying 10 times more to have OEM replacement stuff.

It's worth pointing out that MOV's come in an array of voltages. I use them in my breaker box and in my Dodge truck to keep from buying another control module for $800. MOV's will take a number of spikes and lightning strikes but can wear out and need to be replaced. I try to put them in an easy to change location.

I put those switches on my welding machine when I converted it to DC. The original on off switch is still used, but it only turns the fan on and off. The $5 neon red light switch was a big improvement over the tiny little toggle switch that turns the unit on and off.

You may not want to put MOVs in the power line near the air conditioner its self.
It looks like the air conditioner uses one of the power wires and dedicated signal wire to communicate with the outside unit.
Now in industrial instrumentation you can run into problems with coms when you have "power filtering" or MOVs too close to the instruments. The noise filters can filter out the 250MHz coms overlay signal. I don't know what frequency this unit uses but that's what industrial applications use. As long as your power filter is located more than 10 to 15 feet away you wont have this problem.

Square D QO Qwik-Gard 20 Amp 2-Pole GFCI Breaker-QO220GFICP - The Home Depot

Not cheap .

Most / all HVAC equipment has a listing for Minimum Circuit Ampasity & Max Over Current ( fuse or circuit breaker )_size on the label .

We wire according to the mac CB size .

An inverter drive Mini Split should never show a high start current surge .

God bless
Wyr

The max recommended circuit breaker on this unit is 15 amps.

The inside unit only uses 3 amps max so the inside unit got wired with 16/3 SJ. The hole going into the indoor unit was barely big enough for the SJ and 18 gauge stranded THHN wire I used for the signal.
I think it has a small heater in it because the blower fan only uses like 0.05 amps.
I have the unit powered with my welding extension cord being ran off my back yard welder circuit for now.
Of course when I get the thing installed and ready to go its overcast and kind of cool. To cool the inside of the room off with the bed room door open its only drawing 1.2 amps.
You can tell its barely working to cool the room.
Even the condenser fan is variable speed it barely turns on the current light load.
I would say its marginal over kill using a 9,000btu unit to cool down a 400 square foot bed room.
Also I am going to replace the 1960s style single pane windows with something more modern and put insulation in the walls. I broke the small 23x27 window last year putting in a 6,000btu window unit so that really needs to be replaced. Drilling the hole for the "through the wall" portion of the split confirmed my suspicion that the walls are hollow. So I will fill the void by hole sawing a 4 inch hole in the top between the studs and hand filling with cellulose insulation.
The install cost me about $400 in tools I didn't have, a 2 stage vacuum pump which I have been wanting for a long time, an actual gauge manifold not my rigged up pile of junk I constructed years back and diamond tipped masonry hole saws.
But I figure do 1 install and its more than paid for its self and I need to do at least 1 more split install and I need to service the A/C on my VW.

For my next install I am going to put a 2 ton in the middle of the house blowing into the dining room, kitchen and living room area. About 800 square feet all together.
That is going to be a $1,600 machine.

Think you said you bought a 2 pole 10 amp CB . If it never trips , fine and good . If it does trip , be prepared to replace it with a 2 pole 15 amp CB .

The tooling is a good investment if you are going to do any more HVAC . When we installed our 1st MS , I already had most of the tooling .

God bless
Wyr

I should have a 2-pole 15 amp breaker in my QO breaker stash.
I got the 10 amp because the ebay listing said it uses around 6 to 7 amps at 240 volts.
As far as I can tell the 9 amp rating only applies to 208v.

Last winter , during a storm , we lost the circuit board in the outdoor unit serving our bedroom MS .

I pulled the board & had Johnstone Supply order another one , for me . It was covered by warranty . Had the warranty not covered it , the cost would have been almost as much as I paid for the outdoor unit ( purchased on sale ) .

But I became a little pro active . I ordered and installed a Sq D whole house surge protector . I hope it works .

You can also buy surge protectors to install at the A/C disconnect . The wiring diagram for the outdoor unit indicates there is one built into the unit .

God bless
Wyr

Yesterday it rained and then the sun came out in full force. So finely a realistic test.
I had the window unit going, I wanted to compare the point that the window unit cant handle it and turning on the split to see how big of a difference there was.
My wife says during the peak of summer which I already missed it would get above 75F in the room during they day while she was trying to sleep. Yesterday it got up to 73 which is normally fine but it was very humid because it just rained.
So I turned the window unit off turned the split unit on and set it to 67 just to see what would happen. In about 5 minutes it was 67 and my wife was wanted me to put it on a higher setting because in that time it had acheaved the set point.

What we had been doing on her days off if we were to go some where we would leave the window unit running all the time because if it gets behind it cant keep up.
If I were to turn the window unit off and say it were to get up to 88'F in the room, come home and turn the window unit on it might cool the bedroom down to 80'F while the sun is up. I think this split unit would cool it from 88 to 70 in maybe 10 minutes.

Sounds like your MS is rocking & rolling ! :-)

God bless
Wyr

I have gone out and checked the power feed going to the split, even with the bedroom door wide open with a fan force circulating the air into the main room this split unit is still only running at about 1/3 of what its max A/C power draw should be. I don't think I have seen it over 2 amps. Its helping to cool the rest of the house as much as the opening to the bedroom and the box fan by the door will allow.

So I am thinking the window units are having their BTU ratings inflated and the split units have their BTU counts under rated.

Really depends on how many hours a day you intend to run it.

If you do a break-even analysis, considering the initial cost (fixed cost), and the incremental cost (variable cost) of running in your comparison you will see what's going on.

I tend to strongly prefer units with the highest HSPF (for heating) because of cost, and also I am aware of the CO2 advantage. despite higher initial cost.

However, I was doing the very same consideration for a unit to use in my basement shop space, and in that case, the higher HSPF did not pay off.

The reason was that my shop heating is so intermittent, that the efficiency advantage was never there, even projecting a 15 year life.

I did the same comparison against a resistance heater, and the lower efficiency heat pump was the winner, even with intermittent use. Breaking even in about a year and a half.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqPU0gTLw5g

-AC