Sounds like an interesting experiment.

I wanna see the pix and hear how it goes.

Regards,

-AC_Hacker

Found some experiments on YouTube. Check out his vacuum pump. It's amazing!.
YouTube - Boiling Water Without Heat Using Vapor Pressure Experiment


Class room setup..
YouTube - Water Boiling in a Vacuum Chamber

My idea is to use a 4" section of 1" clear plastic pipe.. No need to waste pump oil.

Found the little air tank down the basement, and a 1/4 flare that I may be able to use.
Hopefully this hardware and the Manifold will allow me to pressure test the line-set.
It's got dry Scuba air in it now, so I'm thinking about driving up to the paintball
shop and getting a fill (3000 psi) of nitrogen. Just to keep the O2 out of the mix.
If I pressurize and bleed down a few times, I just might get some good
'dilution' of any remaining unwanted gases in the line-set, before I start the vac procedure.

I'm very familiar with using a valve to control HPA. I use my 300 bar
scuba tank to put air into my 200 bar air rifle. So getting the right
pressure into the line-set won't be a problem.
I just have to find out what pressure I want to use.. :confused:

So, what do you guys think? Will it work?

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1.../NCL/Ntank.jpg

The manifold just came in.
 

Nope, it wasn't the right connector. Had one that I was able to kludge onto the HPA valve cap.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...NCL/200psi.jpg

The regulator puts out about 850 psi, so I carefully charged up the new Refco manifold to 200 psi.
The low side reads 200 and the high side shows 210.. 5% accurate?
It's been hanging in there for half an hour, so there's no fast leaks anyways. :)

Edit:
Ebay had NYLOG GASKET THREAD SEALANT & ASSEMBLY LUBE RT201B
It's in route. Should be here by the middle of next week..

Edit: Oct 22, Nylog came in today. It's gooey ;)

nice tools...
 

Nice tools, way better than anything I'm using. Everything I'm using is 3rd hand (or more) hand-me-downs, with the exception of my micron gauge.

Yeah, the nitrogen purge tank will come in handy if you decide to continue hacking vapor-compression devices...

When you braze up copper lines, copper oxide will form in the presence of oxygen, and flake off inside the system and can foul the tiny expansion orifice, so you slowly flood the tubes with nitrogen while you braze...

I have heard of one guy who flooded his system with propane gas while he was brazing, to avoid the copper oxide. Seems like an unsafe practice to me.

Best regards,

-AC_Hacker

CO2 is another gas that can be used to prevent oxidation. Helium is another, but it's thermally conductive so it may make it harder to work.

I was thinking about using my CO2 stuff if I ever get a MIG welder.
Don't know anything about brazing stuff. Never even seen it done.
I just looked it up and it looks a little like soldering, but you have to keep
everything super clean and extra tight-fitting. Sounds too hard for a old guy..
I have enough trouble trying to use that low-lead solder.

Besides, I kinda like the little flare connections. They seem to work real well.
Hey, I just got a notice that my Nylog has been sent. First Class Mail. :D

~~

Well, I turned on the heat yesterday (my wife has a cold), so we are
building up the carbon foot print burning heating oil.. :(

Hope my Sanyo comes soon..

Edit: Monday Oct 19
The Sanyo adapter came today. Sanyo R410a Low-Side Adapter KIT
Went to Sears and picked up a 45 degree flare tool (just in case).
Also went to Lowes and got some mounting bolts for the Sanyo indoors and outdoors.
Still have not found any place to buy Vacuum pump oil.. Amazon maybe?

Edit: Tuesday Oct 20
3 Qt. Robinair Premium High Vacuum Pump Oil for $22.57 shipped from ReStockit.com

Solar-Heated Air into Air Source Heat Pump
 

I remember you mentioned this somewhere...

Well, I was thrashing about on Build-It-Solar and found that there had been work along this line in Denmark.


Here's the LINK.

Best Regards,

-AC_Hacker

Neat ideas. Nice drawings.

I think we were actually talking about pre-heating the air going into a Sanyo ASHP during the winter time, using heat from a GS loop.

I've been thinking about the best way to use my new Sanyo.
Maybe crank it higher late in the afternoon, before the outside temperature starts to drop off.
Get the house a little overheated, so it can coast a bit, until bed time.?.
The 2 ton Sanyo can put out a lot more heat when it's not too cold out.
More heat for less KWh, then set it back and coast.


Since you have a ton of collectors, I think it would be more advantageous to store away some BTUs during the peak harvesting hours of the day, When your space heating demands might be low, due to solar gain of windows etc.
If you had some large water storage in the basement maybe?

Or,
I wonder if 10 4x8 collectors would work feeding a well in your back yard?
Cranking up the ground water temperature for the long cold night?

I've heard of large GSHPs used for AC that actually warmed up the ground
so much, after a few years of use, the loops had increased the under-ground
temperature enough to make it much less useful for cooling...

~~~


I went to Sears today and checked their stock of crowsfeet.. Nothing in stock!
So, waiting until the Sanyo gets here isn't going to work, since it takes
a week to get stuff from Amazon (unless you pay 5x shipping).

I noticed that both the Sanyo 24,000 and 12,000 line-sets use 1/4" for the liquid line..

Can you tell me what size flare nut is on that 1/4" line??
Then I can order a kit of either metric or standard flare crowsfeet wrenches. (For my torque wrench).

Thanks,

Metric or SAE...
 

Xringer,

I know you've asked me this before, but the last step of the install is to wrap your refrigeration lines with a layer of self-adhesive insulating tape. Of course, I used two layers of tape. The wrapping process starts at the bottom and wraps up to the top so the overlaps will shed water.


I am not eager to break into the wrappings.

Your equipment supplier should have an '800 number' support line, that is not from India, who can tell you what size fittings you will be working with.

I used wrenches that fit, and as you saw, made my own crows foot wrench out of a wrench that fit (15 mm), so I don't know if the nut was actually metric or SAE.

Best Regards,

-AC_Hacker

I see what you mean.. Well, it was a good try anyways.
The 800 number didn't work, since they don't have any stock right now
and I think they use crescent wrenches anyways! :rolleyes:

Do you have any calipers? That service port cap might tell the tale if it's exactly 14 mm.. :D



I know that I've used a mixed bag of metric and SAE for years,
and many times going by 'fit' when I needed to.

I'll bet if I ordered both Crowsfeet kits, I would have the right size
and very likely could find one that was very close in the other kit.
Meaning, I could use two flare wrenches on those upper connection. Maybe!

I'll find some cheap stuff, since I'm getting too old to buy tools that
are made to last more than 20 years.. ;)

Thanks,
Rich

Service Cap Measurement
 

Here's the service cap measurement, done very carefully. Inches on top, mm on bottom.


Regards,

-AC_Hacker

I could be wrong, but that looks like it's going to need a 17 mm wrench..

Thanks for taking the time to help out an old man..

Cheers,
Rich

At long last! The Sanyo shipped yesterday and should be here on Monday!!
(243 pounds of it)!


I'm going to try a micro Bell Jar test today.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...croBellJar.jpg

I plan to use these fittings to test the vacuum pump, by placing a drop of water inside
the dead-end cap, vacuum it and see if the water turns into vapor (disappears).


~~~~

The 3 quarts of vac pump oil was just delivered!

~~~~

Added some oil to the vac pump and just did the test (twice). I could tell something
was going on inside the micro bell jar, because the temperature quickly dropped.

I shut off the valve on the pump, turned off the power and let the vacuum coast.
After only 15-20 seconds, I could see the pressure coming back up on the compound gauge.
I reapplied vacuum about 3 times (pump on for 30-40 seconds), between coasting.
In the end, the was no temperature drop felt, and no drop in vac pressure.
I shut down, opened the 'bell-jar' and it was bone dry!
I think this Pump is working!!

~~~~
Edit:
After looking at this, http://www.thermalengineeringcompany...appliances.pdf

And reading the fine print.. Water boils at 70 degs when the pressure is down at a mere 20,000 Microns..
So, if I want to be sure that I'm in the target range of my vacuum pump (50 microns),
I'm going to need to find a good vacuum meter.

I had a friend of mine who had a problem with her A/C. It was leaking refrigerant, but fluorescent leak tracer was not able to find it. She finally got an electronic leak detector and found significant leakage at the service nipples. Turns out the plumber forgot to remove the valve cores before welding the pipes, damaging the seals. Replace the valve cores and it's fixed.

BTW, there is a special tool that can be used to replace valve cores without releasing the pressure. It is also very useful for pulling a vacuum faster.

Hello AC_Hacker,

When you picked up your Sanyo, did you lay the outdoor unit on it's side for transport?

There's room inside my SUV for it to stand upright, but if it was to fall over!:eek:
It would be much easier to just lay it down in the cargo area of my ride.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...pe/medFord.jpg

I should be picking up my 2 tons of Sanyo tomorrow afternoon. :D

Thanks,
Rich

I transported the whole thing, in one trip in my tiny Honda Insight. The insidde unit was in the passenger's seat. So, I must have set the compressor unit on its side.

I think (guessing here...) that it's advisable to let a couple of hours pass after the unit has been turned to the upright position, before you power it up. I have heard this before... I don't know if this is refrigeration folk lore, or if it is really specified practice. It seems reasonable to me, as I would think that it would allow time for the refrigerant and lubricant to settle into their proper places. For me, the unit was in the upright position for couple of weeks, due to other demands.

Best Regards,

-AC_Hacker

I'm getting deja vu of bringing home my the 42" Plasma TV from Sears..

My permit should come in the mail this week sometimes, so I'm not
looking to hookup the power for a while. :)

Besides, it's going to take a few days to get my new FieldPiece SVG2 vacuum gauge.. (US Postal Service - Priority Mail).

My mission for today is to get it home without doing much damage to my old back..

Thanks for the info!

Edit: I'm going to bring the camera, in cause of shipping damage, so I should have some
pics to post this evening.

Found a store 2 miles from my house that sells all sorts of HVAC stuff (no Micron vac gauges)
and they have SlimDuct stuff in stock..
Airtec Products - Lineset Protection
It really looks like nice stuff..
http://inaba-denko.com/eng/products/...ages/top-1.jpg
I wonder how well that setup drains with a sideways water hose?

Gravity wins every time.

BTW, here's a link to an Australian web site that rates various appliances. Apparently, what we call 'heat pumps' they call air conditioners. It looks like they use the term 'reverse cycle' air conditioner to specify what we call heat pumps.

Energy Labelling - Energy Rating Home Page

No, they don't have Sanyo in there. It might be marketed in Austrlia under a different name. I wasn't able to find out the name.

Good luck with your set up. This discussion should be valuable to others who want to also DIY a mini split install.

Regards,

-AC_Hacker

I think they must be using the 9,000 BTU pics on their website, because this thing is BIG!

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...yoGodzilla.jpg
It takes two men and a boy to move this thing!


http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...L/sanyokit.jpg
My wife thinks the indoor unit is way too big.. :p
The kit looks pretty good.. The drain hose adapter seems odd. Found it taped inside.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...laBackside.jpg
Why isn't there a mesh screen back here to keep the leaves off the coil??

I'm so glad that I didn't buy any wrenches for this thing!
The smaller nuts are in the 12 mm range and the larger ones are 17 to 28 mm..
This is starting to look like a crescent wrench job.. Luckily, I have a kit of
the larger sized metric crescent wrenches..

I wasn't able to do it, because my house is so small, but if you can locate the indoor unit center over a window or door, it'll pretty much dissappear.

The output of the indoor unit is pretty much unobtrusive, but you don't want it wafting right on you, where you spend most of your time.

Good idea. The fins are so thin that it would be very easy to damage them with a vacuum tool.

Mine has been in operation nearly a year and it could use a bit of cleaning.


Regards,

-AC_Hacker

Doesn't matter as much now. It does need to be upright for operation, but that's it.

And use compressed air to clean the coils.

Cleaning Mini Split Fins...
 

The fins on the inside unit are extremely thin... almost like foil.

The fins on the outside unit are somewhat thicker, but not by much. They are thinner than air conditioner fins I have encountered.

It would be possible for powerful compressed air to damage these fins. Use compressed air at your own risk...

-AC_Hacker

Yeah, they do look super fragile. If I used air, I would regulate it down really low.
And, it seems like you would have to blow it backwards, from the fan side.

Funny thing happened today at the AC supply place, I looked up about
8 feet up on a high rack and saw a bunch of CPS micron meters just like yours.
They were in bubble packs, just hanging there! I missed seeing them
the other day and the staff missed telling me they were in stock.
Too bad I ordered that Fieldpiece gauge on-line! :mad:

Got some flex conduit and some small parts today but ran into a snag this afternoon on the wiring.
My wire is 12-2 and not the 12-3 that I need for this.. The code for 230
here is black, white, red & copper-ground for this kind of app.
Seems so dumb, since regular 12-2(Plus bare copper) would work fine
and be easier to install..Double grounds is a waste of good copper.

At least I got the box out there before the rain got bad..
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...r/NCL/F047.jpg

This Duck box looks like it's made to allow the rain water to leak in and drain out the bottom..
I hope it never fills up..
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...r/NCL/F048.jpg

I have used compressed air to clean motherboards. Just keep a distance and it should work great.

Not much doing today. It's been raining all day, so we took a run to Home Depot and
got 25 feet of 3-12 cable and an outdoor security light fixture.

The wiring from the breaker box to the outdoor Service Disconnect box is done.
It's tied into a linked pair of 20 Amp breakers. (Taped over until Commissioning Day).

This afternoon I picked up the Mini-Duct parts. It looks like good quality stuff.

Tomorrow the rain should stop and I can get this project moving! :)

Drilling!
 

Decided to put the hole in the wall a little lower, so it would be easier
for my wife to remove the filter/cover for cleaning.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...ger/NCL/A1.jpg

The hole went between 2 studs that were about 4" apart. My Stud-Finder worked very well this time.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...ger/NCL/A2.jpg

Installed the bottom half of the SlimDuct.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...ger/NCL/A4.jpg

Screwed on the mounting panel.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...ger/NCL/A3.jpg

Installed the 4 conductor onto the indoor terminal. Needs small lugs, and a strain relief for the cable.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...ger/NCL/A5.jpg

Hung the indoor unit on the wall. My wife had a problem getting the line-set,
cable and drain hose, to go in, they were too big. It was the foam.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...ger/NCL/A9.jpg

Very tight fit. Should have split the foam sleeve and taped it tight.
I hope that drain hose isn't smashed flat.!.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...ger/NCL/A7.jpg

Carefully bent the line set down, using a short wooden dowel.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...ger/NCL/A8.jpg

A shot from down the hall.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...er/NCL/A10.jpg

My hope is to push warm air down this hall to rooms on his end of the house.
If this works, I just might save a bundle on heating oil..

Wooo, nice. Its not quite as big as I thought it was going to be. How much does that indoor unit weigh?

25.6 Pounds per the spec.. It feels heavier to me. (But, I'm old).

http://sanyohvac.com/assets/document..._submittal.pdf

When you aren't used to seeing something Height 11-23/32” ♦ Width:41-15/16” ♦ Depth: 8-19/32”
Hanging on your living room wall, it does look a tad on the BIG side.. :eek:
The outdoor unit is not only larger than it looks in pictures, it's heavy too..

I heard it's going to be warm on Saturday, so I may take tomorrow off
and do the line-set install when it's nice out! :)

As soon as the line-set is in place, I'm hauling out the out-door unit and
hooking it up, so I can start doing some pressure testings.
I'll do the liquid soap thing and also see if it will hold 100 PSI over night.

It turns out the Climate Doctors are having a 3 day shipping delay!
Money spent on US Postal Service - Priority Mail wasted?

http://www.fieldpiece.com/images/SVG2.jpg
When I get that micron gauge, I can start checking the vacuum.

If all goes well, I'll start get an AC tech over here to open the little bag with the allen wrench..


~~~~
Hey! AC_Hacker!
Got some tips on bending 5/8" copper tube without kinking it?
I was thinking using a 5 gallon bucket as a mandrel..

Inside Unit Install...
 

Don't know if you're serious, but conduit benders aren't too expensive, and they do a good job of bending without kinking. I used one to bend 10 feet of soft copper into a helix. Worked great.

Your install looks very good. Very much like mine only about 2x bigger... even the wires are bigger.

Great job of documenting your progress... best on the web!

I'm very interested to hear what your AC tech has to say about your work. I'm also interested to know what he charges you for his allen wrench expertise.

Regards,

-AC_Hacker

I've got a 12" pulley wheel from an old Nordic track that might help me out
with the bending that copper. I've done a lot of hardline coax with similar tricks.

" allen wrench expertise."
I just heard that R410A can be handled by an unlicensed end-user..
That it would not be illegal for me to deploy the allen wrench myself.!.

I'm going to check into this. It just might be true, since I've seen full DIY
mini-spits that had plug-n-play pre-pressurized line-sets..
Even if it's a preloaded line set, the homeowner will still have to release the R410A.. (My guess).

Ductless inverter, mini split, wall mounted, high wall, heat pump, split system, 12000


What's your take on it?

Cheers,
Rich

I'd be very interested to know what you find out about this.

I called the place that sells them, they said that they're the only place that sells these units. So, it's pretty new...

I can certainly see how this would be a real plus, if the technology is sound. I guess time will tell.

BTW, I asked the sales guy what the HSPF was and he said it was 9.5, which is better than mine is (7.7).

Don't know if you knew this but COP can be derived from HSPF by deviding HSPF by 3.412. So instead of a seasonal average COP of 2.26 (which mine has), this unit has a seasonal average COP of 2.78.

So, if my monthly elec cost to run my minisplit was $50, by running this HSPF 9.5 unit, that cost would be reduced to $40.53. More importantly, the carbon footprint would go down also.

Regards,

-AC_Hacker

Inconclusive so far..
 

R-410A Certification

"No new EPA certification is necessary for working with R-410A".


Complying With The Section 608 Refrigerant Recycling Rule | Ozone Depletion - Regulatory Programs | U.S. EPA

Refrigerant Sales Restrictions

The sale of ozone-depleting refrigerant (such as R-11, R-12, and R-22) in any size container has been restricted to technicians certified either under the program described in Technician Certification above or under EPA's motor vehicle air conditioning regulations. The sales restriction covers ozone-depleting refrigerant contained in bulk containers, such as cans, cylinders, or drums.

The restriction excludes refrigerant contained in refrigerators or air conditioners with fully assembled refrigerant circuits (such as household refrigerators, window air conditioners, and packaged air conditioners), and HFC refrigerants (such as R-134a and R-410A).

~~~
It looks like anyone can walk into a store and buy R-410A. The EPA must not
think it's all that dangerous..

So far, I'm not getting a clear message that activating your own Mini-split
(using R-410A) is a job that requires any special license from the EPA..

Got much of the work done today.

Hooking up to the hole-in-the-wall
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...r/NCL/F077.jpg

5/8" copper isn't easy to bend to your will..
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...r/NCL/F075.jpg

Take my word for it, this thing is heavy!
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...r/NCL/F086.jpg

Got some connecting to do!
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...r/NCL/F087.jpg

Copper done.. Got to test it NOW!
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...r/NCL/F093.jpg

Sucking out all the damp air first..
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...r/NCL/F095.jpg

It looks kinda like a 'good' vacuum..
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...r/NCL/F097.jpg

Dang, where did all these wires come from? (Lucky I read the manual)!
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...r/NCL/F104.jpg

Pressure test. Seems to be holding solid. And no bubbles in the liquid soap..
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...r/NCL/F109.jpg

Tomorrow, I'm going to bolt this thing to the slab..
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...r/NCL/F117.jpg


So far, the only disappointment I've had with the vendor supplied 'kit'
(besides the lack of a rear mesh) is the base bolts supplied are too short,
or the rubber feet are too thick. I had to leave out the washers.

My micron gauge is in the mail at last.. When it gets here, I'm going to put
some fresh oil in the vac pump and see what that little RobinAir can do..

Cheers,
Rich

The Nitrogen is holding good so far..
 

Checked it this morning and it was still at 200 PSI.

The test for today is 400 PSI. Since that's the range where R410A operates.

Test Start 8:25 AM Oct 31 2009. :eek:
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...NCL/400PSI.jpg


12:15
Outdoor temperature is up to 71 degs and the pressure is steady at 425 PSI.
(Up from 60 degs & 410 PSI).

17:40
Outdoor temperature is up to 70 degs and the pressure is steady at 426 PSI.
Disconnecting the gauge set for the night, (All Hallows Eve) but am leaving
the system and hose set pressurized, so I can check it out again on Sunday AM.

Nov 1, 2009 08:55 AM
Outdoor temp got down to 46.4 last night and is currently only 54 degs.
This lower temperature means the pressure will have dropped in the lineset.
I also lost some nitrogen when reattaching the gauge set, so the reading this
morning was down to 397 PSI.

I guess this is the rule of thumb. "·If the ambient temperature changes by 1 , the pressure changes by about 0.03MPa (0.3kgf/f)."
That's in centigrade I believe. (From the Mr. Slim manual posted above).

I'm not even going to do the math, since the sun just came out!! ;)

Woohoo, looks like you've made excellent progress. :)

That's what my wife said.. "But when do we turn it on"?
 

I was reading up on the Mr. Slim last night and it looks like they do a 600 PSI test!
http://www.bdt.co.nz/aircon/data/man...nstruction.pdf

There is a lot of interesting info in that manual.. Good late night reading
for the terminally DIYer.. :rolleyes:

Edit: Bolted it down before lunch!
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1.../boltedown.jpg

And the pressure has gone up about 15 PSI.. It's almost 68 today! :)

The city electrical inspector just came by, and we passed inspection! :thumbup:

Woohoo, congrats. What is next on the list?

Waiting for the mailman to bring me a micron gauge from those SLOW guys at Climate Doctors.com.
It's been a full week since I placed the order, and I'm getting impatient.

The USPS tracking is a real joke..


The U.S. Postal Service was electronically notified by the shipper on
October 30, 2009 to expect your package for mailing.
This does not indicate receipt by the USPS or the actual mailing date.

Maybe tomorrow?

Anyhow, once I get a micron gauge, I'll test the lineset to make sure it will hold a vacuum.
If it passes the test, I'll change the oil in the vac pump, then try to create
the best vacuum possible, shut off the pump and see about releasing the R410A into the line set.
I may be able to get one of the AC guys from work to come at noon time.
Just hope he hasn't been drinking his lunch! ;)

There is a simple start-up procedure in the manual, once done, it will be time
to kick back and enjoy a warmer house! :)

Beside get grumpy at the mailman, all I did today was plug in the shorting handle into the service disconnect box.
I'll use the coupled circuit 20A breakers to apply power to the system when the time comes.

Hey ACHacker, Now I know how you felt when you installed your Sanyo! :o
By the way, are those 12,000 BTUs keeping your house warm these days?
It's getting cooler around here.. Today was raw.

~~~~~

Edit: Nov 3,2009
Good news! They must have read my email, because they got the package to the post office!


Status: Processed through Sort Facility
Your item was processed through and left our OMAHA, NE 68108 facility on November 2, 2009. The item is currently in transit to the destination. Information, if available, is updated periodically throughout the day. Please check again later.


Bullet Processed through Sort Facility, November 02, 2009, 9:53 pm, OMAHA, NE 68108
Bullet Electronic Shipping Info Received, October 30, 2009

So, I guess the vacuum gauge is going to be here before Friday.?. :confused: