Can you cite that story?

Not saying you're making it up, but as an employee of the largest haz-waste company in North America, I find that price to be astronomical. :eek:

A $30 clean up kit, and a trip to the local household haz-waste collection would of took care of it. :)

Even if you were crazy enough to hired it out, I don't see it going over a grand. Trans, labor, disposal, etc.

+1 here at the hospital there is still mercury in use. The kits we use have a chemical you sprinkle on the mercury then sweep it up. The kit has gloves, goggles, broom and dustpan as well as a bag to put the stuff in after you clean it up. The EPA site has great info on mercury and CFL disposal.

Mercury Releases and Spills | Mercury | US EPA

The local home depot has a collection bin for CFL lamps for recycling. The ROI for converting to LED for me would be quite a long time... my energy provider shipped me like 25 CFL bulbs when I started service with them. I already had a supply of CFLs and the house already had a few CFLs... All the incondesant lights I traded for CFLs other people didn't want... so I have enough to last me for a long time... and if I did go LED that is a lot of lights I would have to replace... The cost would be hundreds of dollars... I would also basically have to throw away a decades supply of CFLs.

Although I might dab in to LEDs eventually it would be for specific lights. Such as the porch light I keep on at night for security... Right now I have a 23W CFL in it if I can find an LED that is just as bright for 12W or something there could be a small savings...but again there are other places in the house to improve on in order to lower the energy bill.


After googling about the story the closest thing I could find was a mother used a vacuum to clean up mercury after breaking a thermometer. The story was pulled but here is the text from google's cache...

Mercury scare after mum breaks old thermometer (From The Bolton News)

Where did this perfectly good thread about using LED lighting, go so terribly off track?

-AC

I've been a huge fan of LED lighting for a while. If they are purchased directly from China the prices are good. Imagine replacing a light for the last time. The daylight type are my favorite. I had my home full of MR-16 track lights, energy hogs and changed them to LEDs. Thinking about it for a minute the track had 6 pcs halogen MR-16s 20 watts each. That's 120 watts. And now 6 LEDs @ 3 watts each total 18 watts. LESS energy than one 20 watt. halogen and with the LED a beautiful white light.

Recently We have replaced the under-cabinet florescent lamp with LED strip lights. By comparison the florescent lighting were energy hogs. Some mornings I would come down stairs and the under-cabinet lights were still on, all night, Dam.

Now if the under-cabinet LEDs are left on, who cares, It will last longer than me and they draw 11 watts!!! That's less than one of the old florescent fixtures.

I know everyone is working on the ROI. Sometimes it shouldn't matter. Some people smoke some drink. Some head out for a coffee or a Baskin Robbins. We don't consider the ROI there. I know that there is a ROI with the LEDs. It maybe like the stock-market, buy in early and hope it turns out well. The cost of energy will go up so hopefully we're in the market early enough.

Randen

The thing that sold me on the LED bulbs is their lifespan. How much is it worth to you to never have to get up on a ladder and change that bulb over the stairwell or over the back deck again? Not to mention the ceiling fixtures with the thumbscrews that let go all at once, forcing you to play catch with all manner of hardware at heights. After 25000 or more hours of use, I'll have saved myself way more trouble than the price of the bulb.

I agree. How cool would it be to design a house and its lighting and basically NEVER have to change the bulbs? For my existing stuff I'll wait until my CFLs burn out, but my office has 6 new can lights and each will be getting a PAR30 dimmable LED bulb. Expensive at ~$20 a crack, but I'll never have to change them.

Speaking of which, can anyone suggest any good PAR30 dimmable bulbs? :)

I bought quite a few LED bulbs from China also, and the price and promise of long life were definite selling points.

However, the mortality rate of the LED bulbs I got has not been a confidence builder (now approaching 50% after about two years).

Randen, can you share details of the kind of bulbs and seller info on your purchases?

I think that the markup of LED bulbs being sold in the US (which are made in China) is too much.

I also think that the lifespan of the LED bulbs I got straight from China is too little.

Please advise.

-AC

I imagine the main difference between the no-name products and the brand-name products is in the engineering. Kind of like the difference between a Symphonic tv and a Samsung tv. As you know, the devil is in the details when it comes to longevity. As manufacturers ramp up the intensity, packing more emitters into the same or less space, heat buildup and drive voltage take their toll on the less researched products.

With a low-intensity source such as strip lighting, the failure rate should not suffer as long as you don't feed them too much voltage. The heat is distributed over a much greater area. You could even feed them a little less than they are rated for, say 11 volts instead of 12. Life should improve greatly.

Of course, with the knock-off units, you will still get some duds due to lower quality control and testing. Cfl bulbs are the same way: the Lights of America bulbs just don't last as long as the Sylvanias. With the higher purchase price of high-intensity LED screw-in replacement bulbs, I will gladly pay a premium to get a warranty in case something goes awry inside the package. But for the garage, buying 6 knock-off lights for the price of one premium lamp is a definite advantage.

I wish the big box stores would come out with lifetime LED lamps. Pay $35 for a Craftsman or Kobalt brand bulb, and if it ever dies, return it to your local store for exchange. Sounds like a gimmick, but I bet they would sell millions that way. And consumers would have ultimate peace of mind about making the investment.

I have 5 LEDs that I've had in my 5 most used sockets in the house for 3 years and no trouble so far. ...I'd be worried if I did but not one of them is providing any issues. I love how I don't need to wait 3 minutes for them to get bright and in the bathroom I'm not putting a CFL directly above a sink. The 8 watt LEDs pointing down have replaced 60 watt incadescents and provide noticeably more illumination than what used to be there. My bedroom has 2 of the same 8 watt LEDs and they replaced two 13 watt CFLs and I'm impressed that the room is brighter with these than with the CFLs even though the actual lumen rating on the CFLs is higher on the CFL packaging than what the LEDs say they are.

LED Monkey Lights!
 

Video: Cycle lights go high-tech with animated wheel graphics - Telegraph

MonkeyLectric M232 Monkey Light from ModernBike.com


http://technabob.com/blog/wp-content...e_lights_3.jpg

Looks like a nice safety device.. :cool:

Ikea switching to all LED lighting products by 2016
 

I was leafing through the new Ikea catalog, and found this statement:

This should have a very favorable effect on the price of LED lighting. Since Ikea sells so many units, the effect on economy of scale will be to help drive LED prices down to commodity price levels, on a very wide scale.


A visit to Ikea yesterday revealed a growing selection of attractive LED lamps and bulbs. But the miracle of commodity price levels on LED light bulbs has not come to Ikea yet.

Best,

-AC

Almost done converting the lighting in the house to LEDs..and loving it. They're more compact and use less power. I'm using locally made LEDs that have a better quality than the CHinese made ones.

The only reason why I couldn't fully replace all as of this time is because I have yet to consult an interior designer on where to put the others and what style to use (downlight,chandelier,etc)

...i'm quite finicky with styling. and yeah, my electricity bill is significantly lower. What I save from not buying those donuts and coffee, i use to buy LEDs LOL :D

I replaced two 13w CFL {60w equivalent} curly cue bulbs in can lights over our kitchen sink with 8w LED floods {40w equivalent}. The sink is lit every bit as well as before. There is noticeably less light spilled over on the counter surfaces on both sides of the sink though. That's not a deal breaker.

Our next bulb swap will be replacing a pair of halogens in our Braun range hood. That's waiting on me to take one out so I have an example to take with me to the big box store. Seems there is more than one choice of the bulbs base.

I have some CFL outdoor flood lights in some of my IR sensor security lights.
They aren't real bright in warm weather, but I don't really need super bright.
But, during cold weather they stink..

So, I'm looking to try a couple of LEDs on my north facing fixture.
Don't want to break the LED bank, but 100w equiv would be nice..
Anyone have a favorite outdoor LED?

Since LED's are somewhat directional, they can be brighter than the equivalency would indicate. 100W equivalent bulbs are quite expensive - the only one I have was about $50. I use it in my garage as a work light - it won't break easily but I have no idea if it can withstand direct rain and snow, etc.

I think China is the problem
 

Actually the lamps I'm using are also probably Chinese - what cheap electronic geegaw isn't these days - but mine are hanging tough. Maybe you need to purchase from a bigger name, one that exacts a bit more quality control over the product.

The spots and floods in the peak of the chapel, placed there because a 50,000hr lifespan looked awfully attractive when the fixture is 35' from the floor, are good. I've had one die and I'm not renting a lift just for one lamp. There's about 19 more so we're still good.

The Home Depot-sourced floods in the lobby are in good shape, most are over a year.

All my LED lamp installations at work have been Phillips brand, with a few Lithonia brand for the outdoor fixtures.

I have found LED do really well in a few areas.
Cold climate, when you need instant full brightness especially in the cold, off grid with DC power and in directional or flood light applications.
Also they don't put off nearly as much heat.

Other wise I use $1each CFLs indoors. I do admit I have a few inside LEDs but only because they were on clearance at walmart.
I don't see the point in using $10 to $20 LEDs when $1 CFLs work perfect.

I do have 1 LED drop light, I use it when I work in tight confined spaces, it puts off a lot less heat and wont burn me or anything around it.

As far as LEDs go with off grid with DC they have saved my butt from having a dead battery a couple of time when I left the running lights in my suburban on for a few hours.

I have been buying my LED lamps from Tmart: Thousands of Products, Manufacturer Price, Free Shipping Worldwide. They have a huge selection and great information on lamp brightness equivalents to incandescent and cfl.
Remember if you want a right white color you need to get a lamp temperature from 5000 to 7000 kelvin. A more yellow or cool white would be in 3000 to 4000 kelvin range.
The corn row style lamps, they look just like a corn cob with rows of leds on the side and some on the end, give a much broader light distribution. The globe shapes give some dispersal but more limited. Some are just spotlights.

Tmart.com has charts that will describe the different features and compare to other lamps. The E14 size base is a standard screw in bulb. I was somewhat disappointed that they do not at this time have an E12 size base which is the equivalent of candelabra bases becoming much more common.

Have a look at thewebsite if just for the useful information you don't find other places, especially Lowes. Very low prices, lots of choices, cost includes shipping, one drawback is long ship time from Hong Kong. I have always received my products as described and they are very prompt in responding to inquiries and they do have some stuff in US wharehouses.

I hope this helps someone. My LED lamps are working great and I have purchases the corn row stle, small spotlight style, and the globe style. they are all used for different purposes. My experience has been to up size wattage a step above what you think is enough.

so far I have used Philips, Ikea, GeeEee and Cree. I luv Cree the most, with GeeEee ranking at the bottom of my "like" list. I got those 40W equivalent Cree LEDs from home Deport before they jacked up their pricing. As for Philips: we got local untility rebates for them so 60Watts equivalent works out to 9.95CAD/ea. Those Ikeas I bought 40Watters are really good as far as colour rendition's concerned (truly around 2700k), but one of the 2 I bought has a faint buzz...

I'm still using CFLs in my house ( I got 26pot lights throughout the entire house so I cannot replace them all with LEDs), and some I managed to squeeze over 7k hours out of them before the film cap burned out (those darn mylar film caps, don't trust them at all).

Q.

Cree LEDs on the way..
 

After the last batch were smashed and returned, I'm trying one more time..
If these are NG, I'm gonna try for replacements at the local HD store.
They don't sell 4-Packs at stores.. :mad:
So it might be a problem getting them to come around.


Cree 9.5-Watt (65W) Soft White (2700K) BR30 Dimmable LED Flood Light Bulb (4-Pack)
Model # BBR30-06527FLF-12DE26-1U110

I agree with oil pan. CFLs and LEDs have about the same amount of light output (lumens) per electricity used (watts), but LEDs last 3-4 times longer.

For those applications where safety, difficulty or inaccessibility are present, I will use an LED - even though they are 2-3 times more expensive.

My wife actually really likes the slower warm up of the CFL in the bedroom as the harsh LED instant on "flash" bugs her (and me too).

Steve

The LEDs I've used also dim a fair amount better than CFLs if that is your fancy.

I also don't like the instant on bash you in the face brightness and love my slightly older CFLs that take a few seconds to warm up in the bathroom.

I was under the impression that CFLs generally used about twice as much power as LEDs..
(for the same lumens of output).

Here is some LED vs. CFL data, a couple years old, but it shows some comparisons of light output, watts required and bulb life length.

LED vs CFL -- Which Light Bulb is More Efficient? | CleanTechnica

The more recent LEDs are getting better at the lumens/watt efficiency, but overall, there is not a substantial difference between the two.

The BIG difference is bulb life length with many LEDs asserting 40,000 - 50,000 total hours. I think the $0.86 cost for a CFL is a misprint.

Steve

My CFLs aren't the fancy low power models.. I only got the CFLs they had in stock since about 2011ish..

These power numbers look more like the LEDs and CLFs that I'm using right now..
http://iconnectdots.com/wp-content/u...07/why-led.jpg

Crash!!
 

Hey, my LEDs came in today!!
Trick packaging from Home Depot - YouTube

That's about what I pay for bulbs at a reasonable price. On sale they're closer to ~$.25 to $.50 each. On the flip side, I haven't paid nearly as much for the LED bulbs I've purchased either (~$3-$20 per bulb depending on the specifics).

I haven't seen these mentioned yet, but Walmart released their own branded version of LED light bulbs a few weeks ago.

So far I've tried the 60w eq bulb and the 65w eq flood light bulb, both seemed very satisfactory.

60w eq $8.88 a bulb
65w eq $14.50 per flood bulb

Pretty decent price, come with a 3 yr warranty (maybe 5), rated for 22,000 hrs however they are made in china.

They do seem like a solidly made bulb, but time will tell.

Folks, one thing worth noting for RE: CFL. If you manage to get it to serve over 1/2 of it's intended service life (e.g. 5 ~6k hrs, assuming that it's capable of up to 10k hrs nominal service life), it would have dimmed by about 30% when compared to it's original (hr zero) state.

My best CFL record kept (with slight mod to the PCB--replaced the vulnerable lytic capacitor with long service life ones) was about 7k hrs (Luminus, bought from costco Canada) before the film capacitor failed. By then the tube already dimmed by 30% or so.

I don't believe LED would suffer from gradual dimming over time but would simply die(flickered and then cut off, or simply cut off completely...all depends on the driving circuitry designs) but should be able to maintain it's brightness throughout it's usable service life.

My 2c's worth.

Q-TD

It might be the power surges or something, but CFLs just don't seem to last in this house.
I've lost a few LEDs too, but they were replaced by the store (Lowes).

All the LEDs I've had, both 12V and 110V, also dimmed over their lifespan before dying. One thing I've noticed is that the LEDs will dim more before dying, while the CFLs won't get as dim before dying.

Of course YMMV. I haven't had as much experience w/ leds as cfls.

@Xringer:

most SMPS-based AC power conversion systems, from all forms of electronic power supply systems such as modern TV sets, DVD players, computer power supplies, laptop power supplies, or even things like line voltage based (AC120V) LED or CFL lightbulbs, they all don't like power surges. Some rather inferior designed SMPS will not tolerate brownouts.

Because of cost concerns, almost all of these CFLs and some LED lights are built with insufficient component operational safety margin. If they are to use in 120V AC line, typically, they would simply put in some cheep, borderline voltage components (e.g. 200V DC electrolytic capacitors, etc.) that will fail when there's a line voltage swing or surge.

Also: they use some epoxy dipped mylar based film caps in most CFL bulbs just because they (those film caps) are cheaper than proper film cap types (like polypropylene type)...insulation breakdowns due to heat is an eventual affair that will happen to all these CFL bulbs one way or another.

Of all the bulbs I've dissected so far, only a small handful of them tends to be extremely well built: GeeEee CFLs seems to be ok (although I do have 1 failed on me shortly after purchasing, and the vendor refused to replace due to lack of receipt); FEIT is generally ok but I also heard/been told about inconsistent quality and durability also; I'd stay away from generic ones including some re-branded ones such as Sylvania CFLs...I had quite of few of them failed on me prematurely.

As far as LED bulbs I'm currently using Ikea ones, Philips A19 and also Cree 40Watt equivalent. Too soon to tell which ones will last for they are all sealed nicely and I don't feel right to dissect them to perform a reliability assessment.

Quest-TD

ROI for changing to LEDs
 

Posted May 5 2012

We have a lot of track lighting that was using MR 16 metal halide 12 v mostly 20w and some 50w. I had replaced them about a year ago with some Chinese LED 3 w super white. The lighting is amazing and about the same lumins as the 20 w they replaced. Of the 20 pcs I had purchased 2 had quit. Oh well I suspected they may not last. I still intend to buy a bunch more for some other fixtures. I like the super white lighting. Most of our lighting in the house is the 12v MR-16 powered by some large format batteries that are waiting for solar PV install. For now they are charged via a high end charger powered by the grid. Running the calculations it will take 20 years for the lights ROI. But that is at todays dollar. The next time we have an increase in the cost of energy that ROI time will shorten. Just hope they will stand the test of time.

Randen

( As mentioned I had purchased more LEDs only the additional LEDs of greater wattage 3w to 6w and move the 3 w to other areas of the house. But for the calculations lets use the worst case, the higher wattage)


I'm not sure on how I came up with the ROI (20 years) on the LEDs must have been sleep deprived.!!
Nov 1st,2013 has marked the day of increase for the cost of electrical energy. The cost which includes the delivery charge, taxes, line loss, debit recovery charge etc. so the bottom line is $0.198/Kwh. before Nov 1st $0.17/Kwh

As we know cost will always increase so how is our return of investment now.

I believe I had calculated the ROI on $0.13/Kwh but I have to admit. I wasn't very careful and didn't put pencil to paper. The reasons I wanted to change to LED was, going on just the sizable power reduction (20watt to 6watt) and wouldn't have to change them out for 20 yrs.

As this price increase had me check back on my ROI and as like the stock market you need to be in long term??!!:confused:

Here are some numbers:

LED cost $6.00 MR-16 white LED 6 watt 12 volt. ( my home has about 40 of these on track lighting)

Cost saving:
20watt Hal - 6watt LED = 14watt reduction
14 watt x 4hrs/day average = 56 watt/day
56 watt= 0.056Kwh
0.056kwh x 365 days = 20.4 Kwh/year
20.4 Kwh x $0.13 (2009 price)= $2.65 savings per year per LED.
20.4 kwh x $0.198 (2013 price)=$4.04 savings per year

{$4.00/yr savings/light x 40 lights $160.00 per year savings} Who knew its a lot better than the Stock market!!!:thumbup:

Based on these figures ROI of late is 1.5 yrs. (getting shorter with every cost increase) and of coarse the approximate time for the duration of illumination of 4 hrs is just that. BUT still the cost savings are remarkable!!:cool:

Randen


http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1386166750

You said that these bulbs are bright white, is that right?

I see some being sold as:

• 2700K to 3200K (warm white)
• 4000K to 4500K (natural white)
• 5700K to 6500K (cool white)

Which kind are you using?

and it looks like you are using COB lights, yes?

-AC

AC

Yes these are COB lights at 6000k 12v 6 watt. They are performing well however a few 2-3 are flickering. I'm not sure yet if its something with the pin connections in the socket or something in the LED itself.

They are all over the E-Bay sold though different suppliers. In all likelihood manu. by the same company. I'm sure I paid about $6.00 ea. shipping included. Wow!!

I bough extra just in-case a few die prematurely. It wouldn't look to good if I had to mix and match on these rail light fixtures.

I have yet maybe three fixtures in the house sporting those antique globe type heating devices. Outside two fixtures with metal halide. Maybe this spring a change out after the snow leaves. I've seen some very nicely priced LED Flood lites.

Randen

Transformers or Switchers??
 

Randen,

I have quite a few LEDs around the house and I think they are just great!

I have at the same time been seriously going through all of my wall-wart power supplies and getting rid of the transformer type (heavy ones) and keeping only the high efficiency switchers.

So, I'm curious if you have paid attention to the power supplies for your LEDs? Are they transformers or are they switchers?

Seems like an inefficient power supply could nullify the efficiency gains of LED lighting.

-AC

Good point AC Hacker. Those transformers typically pull a few watts 24/7. Definitely not good for efficiency.

AC & Daox

I'm using two switching type power supplies. I think they were approx. $12.00 from China free shipping. They are rated at 10A each with overload protection. Really quite efficient.

Bad news to report the cob LEDs aren't lasting so well I've lost 6 pcs so not a good deal. Oh well life's not over yet. I may find some LEDs that will go the distance of 30 yrs.

Randen

All my LED's are 120v so whatever circuit they have inside 'em.

Ah-ha
 

Well there's your problem.!!!

I'm reluctant to believe anyone in the world that would possess any knowledge of how to manufacture a LED modual would allow this to happen during manufacture!!

I had purchased a large quantity of these COB LEDs 6 watts They look very nice when first installed then begin to flicker from which they proceed to dim or go dead.

I have so many irons in the fire I'd just change them out and chaulk it up to more ______'s crap!!!

One MR16 LED had dropped on the floor and came apart. Looked inside, Couldn't believe my eye's!!! ONE small drop of heat-sink compound and the LED wafer was actually not contacting the heat sink IT WAS HANGING ON THE WIRES!!!

WELL THERES YOUR PROBLEM!!

I Guess I'm going to slowly take them apart and either epoxy or silicon the wafer onto the heat-sink like it should have been done during manufacture.

Gary Gary had found silicon to work well with the flat plate solar panels for heat transfer. I like epoxy.

Anyone like to chime in??

randen