At 3¢ / mile, $5,000 would be 166,666 miles. PER YEAR. I don't think that his EV's are eating up that much electricity.

One car will come close to 3 cents a mile lets say 3.4 cents per mile as its a average , I have seen before and since this is my math I will use that number.

2 cars at 3.4 cents mile *combined* is 6.8 cents a mile which would allow them to of travel 73,529 miles , IF they had consumed all the electricity in their cars like you suggested , not me.

I stand by my earlier statement , that the cars could of consumed *a lot* of the savings.

Right, but the savings on gasoline would more than make up for that.

Right you are. If the cars drove a combined 140 thousand miles and got 35 mpg average, that's 4000 gallons of gas! I would estimate the dollars saved somewhere in the range of ten thousand dollars! If that isn't substantial, I don't know what is.

We just hit 1,500 gallons of gas saved.
That is just over $5,000 saved in just about two years.

If I did not have solar these miles would have cost $963 in electricity charges we are .10 KWH
The saving would have been $4,037 still very good.

I have only had to do one oil change so far so that also saves.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1422555979

With my car a VW diesel without trying cost me 5.5 cents per km to drive , or converted is 8.8 cents per us mile.

Pinball to compare , how much does the *average* Volt cost per mile combined fuels and using the current electric rate for your area.
It will help me understand the Volts economy if I can see the price per mile cost without solar and combined fuel costs.

A 50 -50 split for electric miles and gas miles for a average would be helpful to me as well.

Hope Im not asking to much , I will never figure it out myself. I'm still confused by the EV / e miles.

My graphic shows EV miles that is elect only.

Straight EV miles is @.03 a mile our power cost .10 kwh of course since we produce extra solar I make out a lot better.

I have gone about 7,000 gas miles and I got 35 MPG on gas. If I drove more gas miles I would get a little better on gas MPG. Some people are getting 40 MPG on gas miles. But when the motor does not run for very long. If you use it like we are you should expect about 35 like I am getting

we have used just about 200 gallons of gas since the care was new. my dealer bought 10 gallons so I have bought 190. for 39,265 miles.

Keep in mind we have only needed one oil change. that also saves money and the environment.

A 75 mile round trip would cost 1.20 elect and one gallon of gas.

We do two trips a day about 40-50 miles and charge in between the trips. sometimes we drive father so we just use more gas that day or get in a third charge.

3 cents electric is good , about half what it costs to drive my exceptional frugal diesel beetle.

One day the American car companies will stop building motors to please the oil companies and start building motors to please the People. To me its obvious they build thirsty motors to please the oil companies , I expect they get payed or directed to do so.
35 mpg is something cars have been getting for 30 years and I think we all know they can do much better.

the consumers are getting screwed with that motor , the car needs a eco motor not the standard thirsty motor.

The Europeans must have different laws when it comes to business donations to elected officials as they seem to have much more freedom to build economical engines.

35 miles per gal is 10 cents a mile at 3.50 a gallon , divide that with 50% electric miles costs and it works out to 8 cents a mile. Which is not bad if you compare it to a standard gas sucking American car.

The new Volt 2.0 that will be released in the fall.
Will get 50 EV miles and 41 MPG combined. It will do a little better.

But since I have only used 200 gallons of gas in two years all my other miles are covered by solar power. I will be keeping my current Volt.

We have had our Volt two years now we drive it 20,000 miles a year. For a total of 40,000

Each year 16,500 miles are all electric EV solar powered miles and 3,500 are gas powered miles.

We have used 205 gallons of gas and the dealer provided 10 of those. So I bought 195 gallons of gas in two years to drive 40,000 miles one oil change was needed during this time.

82% EV for the two years.

Those are the numbers as I tell my kids it is fun to drive on the sun. :) 

I never thought about how much power it takes to make gasoline.
Wow if we just skip this step and charge your car there would be enough power to charge your car.

better batteries would help.

It is still food for thought.

The 6 kWh electricity to refine gasoline
The 6 kWh electricity to refine gasoline would drive an electric car the same distance as a gasser?

Most of the time driving my EV, I go at least 24 miles on 6kWh, and sometimes well over 30 miles.

Plus, that is just for refining the gasoline. Extraction also takes a lot of electricity, especially for fracking, and for tar sands bitumen. Deep water drilling takes a lot of energy, as well. Exploration to find the oil in the first place, and transportation - pumping oil through pipelines is non-trivial; again it is even harder with tar sands bitumen.

The numbers I have heard range between 7.5kWh and 13kWh of electricity used per gallon for the total process; depending on the oil type.

This is some good information on the next Gen Volt that's coming out 3rd quarter this year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alW9Ysfz-kE

There is a GM employee on Face Book that posted this picture of the 2016 preproduction Volt they drove home today.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1428628169

We now have 36,289 EV miles on our Volt we also have 8,128 gas miles. We are a lifetime MPG 191. That does not include electric but we charge with solar so it works for us.
We still really like the car it is fun to drive.

It is so nice to have the warm weather back. Most days we done use any gas at all now just solar power!

I am starting to see some used one popup for around 13K this could be a great deal. The car could pay for itself easily for most people in a 2-3 years depending how much you drive.

A question about the 191MPGe number - you are only counting the gasoline used for the 8,128 miles against the whole 44,417 miles, right? Because you also need to count the electricity, as well.

The Volt is good in EV mode, but I doubt it gets even close to 191MPGe in electric only mode, so the gasoline average brings it down.

If you burned 232.5 gallons, then the gasoline mileage is ~34.96MPG is hybrid mode.

So, if the EPA electric mileage rating of 93MPGe is correct v(~362Wh/mile), you would have used 13,136kWh. At 33.7kWh / gallon equivalent, that is another 389.8 gallons equivalent of electricity. The total energy is equivalent to 622.3 gallons of gas, so your overall average is about 71.4MPGe.

Which is still damn impressive.

Do you go 38 miles on electric, or more, typically, or less?

Yes that is why I said

"That does not include electric but we charge with solar so it works for us."
We make enough solar power to cover the Volt and our house.

( Nice Calculations! )

Each full charge takes about 12 kwh we do this at least twice a day.

In the summer we normally get 39-45 miles per charge.

Here are my actual numbers. This is updated daily with OnStar so the data comes straight from the car no user input at all.

Volt Stats: Details for Volt #2013-02615 (Flynn's Light Runner)

This is todays snapshot of it.
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1430190280

I don't want to mislead anyone my saving numbers will always look better since we charge with solar.

We also live outside town in a rural setting. This usually means I would not be able to have a EV but with the Volt that is not the case. My gas miles shows that we live out a ways. A Tesla would work but I have to win the lotto for that and I don't play it so I guess a Volt will have to do.

Here is some more technical information on the new Volt coming out.

“This more efficient Volt now goes 50 miles on electricity and accelerates much harder.”
Dissecting Chevy's 2nd-Gen Moonshot - Technologue - Motor Trend

Okay, I'm glad you have the electricity usage numbers. :thumbup:

One question: when we get a solar PV system, are we getting infinite MPGe in our Leaf and e-Golf? ;)

I have seen people count the cars the rent for vacations gas against their EV only cars. Some people rent cars just to go a few towns away.

But most just use a second car that gas could be counted.

Seriously those miles will be sweet solar powered miles. Driving on the sun!

Electric Car Has Been Spotted...
 

This morning, I spotted a car that looks like the car in this picture...


It seems to be a 2013 Nissan Leaf, in perfect condition.

It is sitting in my driveway. The "fobs" and the owner's documents are there too, along with legal documents in my name.

I'm not sure what to do next... any advice?

Desperately,

-AC_Hacker

Congrats! Very nice welcome to the future!
Install a solar array to charge it.

You could build your own EVSE
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/applia...ment-evse.html
This one uses very little standby power.
It has worked perfect for us.

How many miles are on it?

Thanks pinballlooking, this is exactly the information I needed for the next step!

Only 12K

As a condition of purchase, I required a Nissan battery analysis.

Perfect battery.

-AC

12K miles is not bad at all.
My Volt is a 2013 and it has over 47K total miles with 38.7K EV miles

Congrats on the new(er) vehicle AC Hacker. I've been keeping my eye out for deals on EVs as well. Something will eventually come along.

I looked at what the local market prices were, and found an ideally treated car that was going for middle-average price, and I went for it.

But, Geo NR Gee is really the master of getting great car deals. He has some amazing Voo-Doo that makes good cars that cost little money, come crawling his way. He has had a used Leaf for a year or so and has logged about 60K miles and everything is still top-notch.

As far as know, the Leaf is a very good electric car, and it has been around long enough that there is a substantial pool of used cars.

If you wanted to play the waiting game, lurk for somebody who is freaked out by the whole electric car thing, AND has a very marginal battery and wants to unload the whole nightmare for a pittance. Then just replace the battery ($4500), and drive on down the highway to happiness.

You should also do some serious research into how an EV battery is affected by deep cold. I don't have to worry about that where I live, but you should inform yourself.

This car is so amazingly quiet!

Best of luck,

-AC

How about some pictures of your actual car.

OK, Here you go...


Best,

-AC

Nice. I like the color.

Been watching them since they came out. Interesting car however it doesn't fit our needs due to range, size, etc.
I have talked to two owners of them here and both had the same comment... They are decent for short trips but not a good car in the summer. The battery gets too hot. The battery will never cool down enough for it to recharge here. With summer temps over 100* and its 90*+ already at 9 am and will often be mid 90s till near midnight.... Both owners I talked to say they rarely drive theirs in the summer. The ac performance was also an issue. Hopefully Nissan will add a better cooling system for the batteries in the future.

I had the thought once that it'd be cool to convert the El Camino to electric. Massive torque if done right and can get the weight balance really good.

As for electric... I see at least two Tesla model s a day when I'm driving in dallas. Even saw a Fiskar in the lowes parking lot here once.

In 2013 Nissan updated their batteries to a newer chemistry. I'm not sure the newer cars have the same heat issues the older Leaf's have.

That's good to heat but it still doesn't alleviate the heat issue. Course they are still the new thing and it'll get better every day but for now they are still a fair/cool weather car. Not ready for our climate quite yet unless you have an air conditioned garage to cool the battery to charge it.

Since you are if very high heat you could check out the Volt they have a liquid cooled battery. They do not suffer from the same heat issues that the leaf does.
People in very hot climates have had very good experience and the AC does not take away range like the heater does.

I see quite a few volts here. I like them but unfortunately it doesn't work for us. I need a much larger vehicle with cargo and some towing capacity. Can't haul my tools in a volt. Loml is a flight attendant so only a few commutes a month.

What is the amp draw for the volts ac vs heat? I assume it uses the sanden electric compressor or similar. I remember when that compressor was announced to the market but never knew cost or amp draw. Only numbers I found were around 3k for cooling and double that for heating. I'm surprised they didn't just make it a heat pump. Sounds like it has heat strip instead. And 3k watts for cooling sounds about right when I do the math. That gives you enough tins to cool a car. Few realize how much it takes to cool a car, in fact some cars have more cooling capacity then a small house. I figured up the tonnage on a n old van once and including the rear ac it was over 5 tons.

If you need towing Via motors is the only one I know of that will fit the bill.
But they are too expensive.
VIA Motors Extended-range Electric Trucks, Vans & SUVs EREVs

The Volt does not have a heat pump the leaf does.
http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/TECH...in_heater.html

I ran the AC this weekend and I drove the same trip a little over a hour away. I charged up and did the same trip again the next day.
On the way out it way 97 F I got 40 EV miles on the way back it was only 87F I got 41 miles EV.
Without AC I would have gotten a couple more miles maybe 43.

I put Michelin defender tires a while back that hurt my range that same trip with stock tires I would have got 45-46 EV miles.

I the stock tires are a bad design just hit a curb hard and you blow out the side wall. Everything is a tradeoff. The 2016 Volt has OEM Michelin tires now.

Good info, didn't know that.

It sounds like you pay a 5% penalty when you use 'normal' tires. Since my car only has 12K miles, it should be a while until I need to make that decision.

Best,

-AC

No matter what EV you have it is just amazing driving on sun power.

We have just hit 39,044 EV miles with total miles 47,733. Only one oil change needed so far.

I just love converting the sun into my cars fuel and not promoting buying oil from countries that hate us.

Having the car slowly pay itself off with fuel savings is not bad either.

I agree with you regarding the sanity of using sunlight for any kind of power, especially for transportation, since that is such a large part of our energy use. It is super important to use Currently Available energy, rather than continuing the bloody competition to enable mining the limited fossil energies from the earth.

Regarding, "...oil from countries that hate us." These countries hate us because we have been taking advantage of their ignorance, and 'buying' their oil at a price that is far below what it is truly worth, or creating wars, and turmoil, and chaos, so that we can essentially steal it. We (The US, and Europe) have been doing this for slightly over 100 years. The oil-rich countries that have been set upon this way, are clearly aware of what is going on, but the US public is shielded from this distasteful detail, so that the national thuggery can continue.

It's all in the history books. Some of the more insightful documentaries, detail these events, too.

So, my brother, drive with a sunny smile on you face!

Best,

-AC

Free Energy From The Sun...
 

Just by chance, I discovered this building located one short block from my house. That would be a 1 minute walk.:


OK... so it may not be much to look at, but there is a fairly substantial array of PV panels on the roof...


More interesting...


There is an L2 EV charging station to charge EVs... like my Leaf EV shown above.

Best of all is that there is no cost involved in charging my Leaf... No monetary charge at all.

I think that their evil plan is to get hapless EV owners, such as myself to use this free charging station until they become habituated to charging at this place.

...So far, their evil plan is working just fine for me!

Best,

-AC_Hacker

Very nice! Sun powered miles……..
How do you like your car so far? Is this your only vehicle?

That is a nice looking solar array.

I like the car very well, although I feel a bit bourgeois, driving such a nice, comfortable car.

Very quiet, comfortable ride, good handling, more power than I had expected, fun to drive.

My other car is a 2000 Honda Insight (60 mpg city, 73 mpg hwy).

Best,

-AC