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-   -   A7 AirTap install (ASHP hot water heater) (https://ecorenovator.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2286)

AC_Hacker 08-02-12 09:38 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Xringer (Post 23435)

Did you happen to measure the total length of the copper tube that you stuffed into the water heater?

Do you know what the OD of that tube was?

I have seen similar units set up in Europe which have the ability to direct their cool, dehumidified air into the house during the summer, and elsewhere during the winter.

...Also, how was this thingie constructed?


...And what is the BTU rating of the compressor on this rig?

...Does your unit use the thermostat in the water heater to turn the compressor on & off?

...Lastly, what prompted you to go with is setup rather than an integrated heat pump water heater? Those integrated units are coming down in price...

-AC

Xringer 08-02-12 10:15 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I unrolled the HX loop and I think it was just under 15 long. So, less than 30 feet round-trip.
The OD is just under 0.22" (5.6mm).


The thingie is a tapered-bottom plug with the copper tubes brazed in holes.
The sensor tube is in a small bolt that threads into the top of the plug.
The bottom taper fits into the 'Tee' top flare and is held down with a large nut. See pic.


The A7 is a 7k BTUh unit, per the spec.. :rolleyes:

I think the small sensor tube is connected back to the temperature control.
Seems like the old standard refer design. The unit uses zero watts in standby.

I found out about the 'free' hybrid units right AFTER the A7 was delivered. :o
But when I read into the rebate info, I found it would have to be installed
by certain state registered installers.. No DIYers allowed..
So, the free units aren't really going to be free. Once the installer sees
what you will be paying after the rebate, he will jack up his labor cost
to make sure you get a rotten deal in the end.. So to speak. :(

Xringer 08-02-12 01:26 PM

Seems to be working.
 
Leaks!!
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...W/P1000710.jpg
Had to tighten up the sensor bolt, and the big retaining nut..

Making some warm water..
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...W/P1000711.jpg
My new temperature is displaying the temperature of the 'Tee' fitting, where the HX feeds into the tank.


Using about 600 watts! It started off slow and worked it's way up..
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...W/P1000712.jpg

Xringer 08-02-12 05:43 PM

Need cloudly days..
 
The input water from the old Multi-Fuel boiler was warm (~85F) when I filled the new tank.
I shut down the oil burner timer yesterday, but it held some heat

So, with the A7 t-stat set for 120F, the A7 only ran for 1.5 hours before stopping.
(It was 115F, measured in the sink).
The air in the basement was less smelly. It was actually cool and dry in my little machine shop..

As a test, I spent 1/2 hour in the shower, :p when I was done, the water temp was still hot!
(Too hot to use without mixing in cold water).

When I went back downstairs, the A7 was on again. 0.5 hour later it went off.
It seemed to recover too fast. I checked the input water, it was 90F !
The PV solar/heating element warmed up the boiler water a little. (76 gallons).


So, once we get a few cloudy days, I'll get some real power use numbers.

Even with a total of only 2 hours of run time, I'm starting to like the A7.
The HX temperature gets up to 122F faster than I expected.

The amount of cold air coming out of the A7 feels a bit like 6,000 BTU window AC.
In two hours, we collected about 46 oz (1.36 liters) of water. (in the orange HD bucket).

Xringer 08-03-12 12:53 PM

1 Attachment(s)
We used 0.88 kHh for initial setup yesterday, and 1.125 kWhs total.
After the last A7 run yesterday, I changed meters, so we could start at zero (as of about 4 PM yesterday).

~~~

The shower was used about 15 minutes last night, but the A7 never started back up, until my wife washed her hair this morning.
We also had some light kitchen hot water use today, but as of now power use is only 0.505 kWh. (51 min run 8:30 AM)

Interestingly, the PV heating of the injection water from the boiler isn't too bad, with light water use.
I've noticed the boiler temperature climb from 79.2F at 7:45AM, to 83.5F at 1:35PM. (It's a sunny day).

~~~

I know that heating the boiler with my 800w PV array is a horrible waste of solar power..
But, that pre-warmed 76 gallons of boiler water is going to allow us to use a lot more hotwater over a shorter period of time.
Like if we want to do a wash load, and take a couple of showers the same afternoon.

~~~

We have not used a drop of heating oil in two days. (Saving $2 per day).

During sunny summer days, while the basement is 74F, my guess
for average power usage is going to be from 1 to 2 kWh per day. ( 16 to 32 cents). :thumbup:


~~~

Edit: 22:32 8/3/2012
It's the end of day#2 and the A7 had to make some more hot water (two more showers).
Total use since yesterday at 4PM is 1.112 kWh.
That seems to add up to about $5.50 a month. Much better than $60ish a month for oil..

Edit: 22:37 8/4/2012
It's the end of the 3rd day (2nd full day) of normal hot water use. Now at 2.290 kWh.
Subtracting yesterday, We burned 1.177 kWh today (19.22 cents). Dishwasher and two showers.

Saved $6 in oil ($2 per day) and burned a total of 3.415 kWh since install.
That's 56 cents at the current rate.

Did we just cut our hot water heating cost by 90% ? :confused:

Average temperature of water into the Airtap was about 80F (heated by PV). Sunny days sure help.
It's a little below average, but not too bad.


Edit: On 8/5/2012 we used 0.521 kWh. Not much hot water use on Sunday for some reason. :o
We just took it easy and stayed up to watch the Mars landing.
(As a kid, I always wanted to be able to say that someday).

poleikleng 08-04-12 08:51 AM

Xringer,

"We have not used a drop of heating oil in two days."

Are you planning to completely shut off your oil fired furnace? Any concerns with the furnace being idle if you do shut it down?

Poleikleng

Xringer 08-04-12 09:47 AM

No, the oil burner will remain operational as a secondary back-up.
The primary back-up to the Sanyos is a few 1500w cheapo space heaters.

My plan is to test-run the burner once a month. Just to get the oil boiler up to 120F.
Should only take 5 to 10 minutes. In the late Fall, when I do burner maintenance,
I'll find out if short runs are okay. No residue goop buildup on the flame retention head etc.

~~~

I used the IR pistola to check the AirTap output line for convection leakage.
The 3/4" copper was only slightly above room temperature @ 76F..
So, I won't be adding-on any heat trap loops.
But, since the AirTap is closer to the kitchen, the HWT (Hotwater Wait Time) is now about half of what it was. :cool:

~~~

It's gonna be a hot & muggy one today. Both Sanyos are running.
This weather reminds me of this day, 44 years ago. I got hitched! :D

Stay cool my Friend!

MN Renovator 08-05-12 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xringer (Post 23482)
It's gonna be a hot & muggy one today. Both Sanyos are running.
This weather reminds me of this day, 44 years ago. I got hitched! :D

Stay cool my Friend!

It may have been yesterday, but happy anniversary!

randen 08-06-12 06:46 AM

Yes happy anniversary Mr & Mrs Xringer. 44 years together, not many can do that anymore. Congrats on your Air-tap. Reading some of the comments it seems a little controversial for some people. Robbing Peter to pay Paul. During the winter at least that maybe the case. But still you are gaining some heat throught the concrete floor and walls during this time and of course your Sanyos are pumping in some inexpensive heat. (not burning anything) in addition to the pre-heating with the solar PV. By the Airtap chart at 32 deg F your still ahead of the game COP > 1.0 not that your basement would ever get that cold with a 64 deg F floor.

Xringer Wrote:
"Saved $6 in oil ($2 per day) and burned a total of 3.415 kWh since install.
That's 56 cents at the current rate.

Did we just cut our hot water heating cost by 90%"

I think its a great system. Your other idea to bring down some warm air from your attic (Free heat) another great idea.

I think that there are some of us that are sitting on the edge of our seats as to when the Tarm dinosaur will become extinct.

Keep up the great work

Randen

Xringer 08-06-12 08:35 AM

Thanks guys! We had a great 44th anniversary. Three weeks ago my wife had lung cancer surgery.
She is recovering more everyday and her prognosis is excellent. She might last another 44 years!
(That's why this project was going so slowly in recent weeks).
We should be out on the bikes again in a week or two (if it's not too hot).

I'm looking at my log. The Room Temperature over in that corner drops
by 1 or 2 degs F when the AirTap runs. But it's back to up to 74F very quickly.
The temperature on the other side of the basement is unaffected.
It stays at a constant 74F. Typical for this time of the year.

This system is not meeting my humidification goal.
After the AirTap runs for a while, we have nice air in the basement.
The problem is, it's not running enough to fully dehumidify the whole area.
We might have to plug in the regular dehumidifier too..:(

Yesterday, run time was less than an hour, using about 1/2 a kWh..
Needless to say, not much water was removed from the air.

I removed the drain bucket and installed some small plastic drain tubes
for the condensation and the pan.
The condensate drips into a stump hole and soaks into the ground.
Some of the humidity problem is caused evaporation from that hole.
(Even if it looks bone dry).
So, I'm thinking about one of those little condensate pumps, to dump that water outdoors.
(DIY never ends)! :D


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