Help , Please - Mini-Split HP Repair
 

I need to know how to replace some of the oil and what kind of oil is needed for a mini-split ?

Mine is a bottom of the line 13 SEER 12,000 Comfort Aire HP . I am guessing they use the same kind of oil , but that is just a guess ?

I emailed the company , but no reply , so far ?

Thanks ,
Wyr
God bless

Why do you need to replace some of the oil?

How much do you think you need to replace?

-AC

R-22 Capella oil (aka no wax no detergent, otherwise like in your car)

R-410A POE

You don't know if you have 22 or 410A? Then you need to do a LOT of reading on the web, here or other places before asking inane questions (as ACH implied, but too nice to say right out <G>)

Have never heard of a mini-split having one of the old type unsealed reciprocating compressors, but if there is such an old beast, it surely uses Capella oil. (e.G. 1970s chrysler compressors that have a crankcase oil fill plug)

Well , the system was running OK for several days .

This weekend , I got around to finish insulating the liquid & suction lines ( I had left the last few inches " bare " so I could flare the ends ) , and the service valves .

I dumbed up and bent the liquid line around , a tad , to make it easier to insulate . Should have left well enough alone . :-(

Few hours latter , I noticed the unit did not seem to be cooling . Went out side and noticed a wet spot on the concrete . I guessed I did not get things insulated completely & it was still sweating , some .

Stuck my finger in it & it was not water ! It was oil . Unwrapped the insulation & the flare nut on the liquid line was leaking oil & a little refrigerant .

The oil on the concrete was about 10" by 4" . I put the gauges on it & it still has a few pounds of pressure . I shut the service valves off .

Since I posted this question , early this AM , I talked to factory technical assistance . He said the unit is charged with a lot of oil , to compensate for long line sets . He said , for no more than that , he would not add any .

I also asked him if what kind of poly ester oil . He said it was the same used in big R410a units .

So , that is where I am , as of now .

God bless
Wyr

Perhaps I did not word my question well ? Perhaps I should not have assumed all mini-splits were R410a ?

I did not expect rude replies .

I have done a lot of reading and studing on the web .

I do know the system used R410a . It states that on the factory label / tag and the charge weight , in ounces .

I have read mini-splits use poly ester oil - POE .

I did not know if there were different kinds / viscosities / formulations for different mini-splits . So , I asked . I have since been told it is all the same ?

I have added small amounts oil to refrigeration systems , in the past , by filling the hose with oil & then using refrigerant pressure to " shoot " it into the system .

I intended to ask , for other ideas of good ways to do it .

I welcome any and all information .

God bless
Wyr

Let the Party Begin...
 

> I put the gauges on it & it still has a few pounds of pressure

If you only had a few pounds of pressure, it looks to me like you have lost all your refrigerant.

You'll need to repair the line-set leak.

Then you'll need to do a full pump down and all that goes with it.

I'd say that the tools you will need are:

• Brazing torch and sliver phosphorous brazing rod
• inert gas purge set, tank, regulator, etc (dry nitrogen preferred)
• manifold gauge set
• vacuum pump
• micron gauge (to assure that you have the required vacuum and have actually fixed all leaks)
• All the wrenches required, including crow's foot wrenches that will fit onto your torque wrench.
• assembly lube that will be compatible with your refrigerant
• enough 410a to set your system back up

If you already have all or most of these tools, I'd say go ahead and DIY.

If you don't have all or most of these tools, it might be cheaper to have the work done by a HVAC tech.

However, if you don't have all or most of these tools and you really like acquiring new tools, then let the party begin.

Xringer did most of the work you are about to do, and he documented it pretty well, so that may help.

Best,

-AC

Yes , I have read Xringer 's posts . Very helpful & very informative .

I have the tools . I installed the system several days ago . I dumbed up and caused the leak , myself . :-(

It is leaking at the liquid line flare nut , to the condenser . I moved the line while finishing up insulating the last few inches of copper and the service valve . Damaging / bending the line at the flare nut .

I will cut the flare off , with tubing cutter . Re-flare the end of the copper . Vacuum it down & the charge it back up with R410a .

Thanks ,
Wyr
God bless

I looked on a couple of web sites that sell HVAC supplies . They list several different viscosity of POE - poly ester oils ?

So , I am uncertain , again ? If I did end up having to add some oil ?

I have used ester oil ( 100 viscosity in an automotive A/C ) . And I do not know if that is the same as used in HVAC ( split systems , mini-splits or Roof Top Package units ) ?

God bless
Wyr

Gassed the mini-split up , after work , Monday .

It seemed to run OK , Praise the Lord ! :-)

It ran last nite , until we cut it off , when we went to bed .

Have not checked it , this AM .

Wyr
God bless

http://s719.photobucket.com/user/Wyr...41737354690353

http://s719.photobucket.com/user/Wyr...41737354690353

http://s719.photobucket.com/user/Wyr...41737354690353

http://s719.photobucket.com/user/Wyr...41737354690353

I think the refrigeration goddess is well pleased with your work.

-AC

Well , yes and no . Still having trouble getting enough slope on the condensate line to make it drain properly . :-(

Will work on it this PM .

Right now the RH is 35% and it is cooling well enough to produce condensate .

God bless
Wyr

Don't want any condensate to not drain... might get a bunch of legionnaires living in there.

Sounds like you're almost done.

-AC

MiniSplitDrain107-08-2013_zps3f11e331.jpg Photo by WyrTwister | Photobucket

MiniSplitCondensor07-06-2013_zpsa0beb97f.jpg Photo by WyrTwister | Photobucket

MiniSplitCondensor07-08-2013_zpsa38b4412.jpg Photo by WyrTwister | Photobucket

1/2" white PVC coming down the " post " and empting off the edge of the porch .

Seems to be working , thank God !

In hind site , I think the drain could have been shifted to the opposite side of the fan coil unit and I maybe , could have brought the drain down with the line set , against the side wall ? Hindsight .

Wyr
God bless

Knock on wood and Praise the Lord !

All seems to be working fine . :-)

The cool is cooling and the drain is draining . :-)

I intended to buy a 9,000 btu unit for the living room / dining room , but my distributor only had a 12,000 btu unit in stock & I got it on sale . ( I think it was discontinued , but I am not complaining. )

Glad I got the 12,000 . South facing exterior wall . Big windows . The bigger unit is welcome when the temp passes 95 .

Bought a roll of the sticky black " cork " tape & VERY CAREFULLY insulated the service valves & last few inches of copper . They are no longer sweating / dripping .

I just hope it all lasts a good long time . :-)

A mini split is not an inexpensive solution . But I like it .

I set the central air on 80 . Set the mini split on 72 to 76 . We have window shakers on 2 of the bedrooms , kitchen & " computer " room .

We have the flexibility of only cooling the areas we are using . Plus , redundancy .

And , at night , when we go to bed , we are really only cooling one bedroom .

Plus , the mini split is very quite . :-)

God bless
Wyr

That is great. I'm glad to hear its all working out.

That little loss of oil is no biggie. You would have to loose a good bit to cause problems. Condensate drains on minisplits can be a pain to set up well. Getting a nice even slope with a bendy hose is hard and some units like LG and others have a goofy size connector that you have to rig up fittings to tie it to PVC.

I'm not real fond of where your unit is placed. In a corner with a roof overhead really hurts airflow and drastically increases the amount of recycled air it will be using.

I see you have it as a supplemental unit for your living room/dining room. That's a pretty common use even in houses with a central unit. Usually the ducting to those rooms is very lacking and the heat loads of those rooms now is way higher than they were years ago and manual J/D still doesn't take this into consideration along with other issues. Computers TVs and all those other electronic items that are in living rooms now put out massive amounts of heat and it's not being compensated for. Anyway....

Kitchens are also a really good place for an additional small minisplit. The only problem is that minisplits are quite a bit more expensive than conventional systems so if your main system is in good shape go for the additional unit if you like but if it isn't then spend your $ on the main system first.

You may be correct about the location ?

It was dictated by several circumstances / decisions that may or may not be entirely rational . But seemed to be at the time .

The mini split seems to be running well , but this is my first personal experience , living with one of them .

Did I mention it was quiet ? :-)

Thanks to all for the help ! :-)

God bless
Wyr

Yup I know how it goes. Rarely can you ever put things where they need to be. Our unit is in the back in a corner of the house. Not good for airflow at all. It will be moved to the west side of the house so I don't have to listen to it when I'm out back. (no appreciable sunload on the west side due to trees)

I have found some minisplits the inside unit is louder than the outside unit.

I can not hear the out door unit , inside the house . First day we had the thing running , I told Wifey her co-co clock made more noise ticking than the indoor unit does . :-)

We have had a few days of rain and / or cloudy weather . Has brought the temp down dramatically . The mini is not running a lot & is cooling very well .

I would like to ask again . Does anyone know the difference in equipment life of a cool only system compared to a HP actively run on heat and cool ?

God bless
Wyr

Typically 10-15 years. Pretty much the same as a central unit.

As long as the coils don't leak and compressor keeps running it takes little to maintain. Some places have stuff int he air that can accelerate corrosion of coils and some houses do as well. Doing refrigeration the biggest killer of coils was chicken. Raw chicken puts off a mild acid that eats away at evap coils. They have sprayers that wash the coils off to make them last longer. The number of times the compressor cycles has a big impact as well.
The most common failure I have seen in minisplits is the powersupply on inverter units. The single speed ones are more reliable because they don't have a big supply putting out 380Vdc with big capacitors in a hot condenser. The big caps are easy to get and an easy repair though and worth the hassle over a single speed.

Mine is a single speed ( no inverter ) condenser bottom of the line 13 SEER .

I did not know if the thing that does them in is the years or the number of hours . Obviously , the HP will run more hours ( heating and cooling ) than a straight cooling only unit .

Thanks ,
Wyr
God bless