I think GM is going to sell a decent number of Volts and Bolts. Teslas are cooler, but I think a Bolt in the hand trumps 2 Teslas in the bush. In other words, it's not worth a 2-year-or-more wait for a Tesla Model |||

Well , I have to eat my own words , some what .

We bought a 2012 used Leaf with 10 battery bars .

If gas goes up , significantly in the next few years , I may look like a genius .

Or , the Leaf may turn out to be an expensive whim .

I may retire , fully in around a year & loose my company truck . Or I may not .

I like driving the Leaf , as does my Wife .

A 200 mile Bolt would be more practical , but I figure it will be 3 - 4 years before used Bolts are available at decent prices .

I bought ( wisely or not ) an extended warranty / service contract , in hopes it will cover the battery , if it goes to 8 bars after 60 months or 60,000 miles .

The 2015 Chevy Sonic will still be our out of town car .

God bless
Wyr

CONGRATS!
On the new ride. This is great so my people getting EV`s

For what it is worth , I am getting email adds for used 2012 Mitsubishi i-MiEV . Looks like they are priced attractively . But I know almost nothing about them ?

God bless
Wyr

It's small and slow and doesn't go very far and doesn't charge very quickly.

Chevy released the EPA EV range on the new Bolt.
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1473774273
Not to bad.

Very impressive...

Motor Trend test drive.


2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV Review - Range Test

Some more info on the new Bolt.


CHEVROLET BOLT EV IS THE 2017 MOTOR TREND CAR OF THE YEAR
Chevrolet Bolt EV is the 2017 Motor Trend Car of the Year - Motor Trend

I can't wait to buy one.

I have about 12 kW of roof mounted solar that supplies me with ~ 2/3rds of my electric power needs. If I add in a Bolt (@ ~ 300 kWhrs/month), I can rationally expand my system by another 12 kW, have power for an EV and do about 98% of my electricity needs. My big barn has more than 1/2 the southern roof yet to cover with panels.

I did do a little engineering home work that compares the price of a kW and the equivalent cost of a gallon of gas. There are 33.41 kWhrs of energy in one US gallon of gasoline (when consumed in an efficient vehicle).

Right now, my simple amortized cost of PV electricity (materials cost and 25 years) is about $0.02 per kWhr. Multiplied out gives a gasoline equivalent of about $0.75 per gallon.

Here in Oklahoma, we do a lot of driving just to get to town and cutting my fuel bill by more than 60% is a welcome thing. Now I just have to find a way to get my big John Deere tractor to use electricity!

Actually that day is close and JD is already working on both a hybrid and full EV tractor . . . .

Recently, I did test drive a Leaf and was very impressed with the handling - the low center of gravity was very apparent. Interestingly, the large and low mass also contributes to a far more stable ride that you would expect in such a small car. Nissan clearly did a lot of work on the spring/shock absorber and mass to get such a smooth ride. FAR less "jiggly" than my wife's Honda Civic. And QUIET!

Steve






Steve

We are using about 580 kWhs/Month charging our Chevy Volt. We now have 61,432 EV miles.
It is very satisfying driving on solar power. A lot of my miles were when gas was adv $3.50 a gallon.
If I my EV had more range I would use even more KW a month. I am good with where we are at this point.
I really love Bolt coming out and I can’t wait for an EV truck. EV and solar power is such a great combination.

Chevy Bolts will be delivered by month’s end.
Chevy Bolts Are On Their Way To Dealers

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1481729973

The Bolt should get about 3.5 miles per kWhr so 10 kWhrs per day should get you about 13,000 miles per year with zero dino juice.

I am going to add to my solar array (currently at 12.7 kW) with another couple strings to allow that. My electric coop limits me to a 25 kW peak system so I can't go too crazy.

The last panels, inverters, trunk cable, wiring and mounting hardware came out to ~ $1.1 per watt and I anticipate the Enphase M215's being phased out this next summer.

Panels are about $0.60 - $0.80 a watt, but buys can be found at less that that, but you have to perhaps buy 100.

Reducing the inverter to $50 (from the $90 price now) may tempt me earlier. I still have lots of roof space (more than half is open) so I can easily double my array - but economic laws tell me to not do too much.

Cloudy, cold and windy day here with the array barely spitting out electrons . . .

Here is a sweet deal from Renvu for a 335 W panel (72) cells for $0.49 a watt!!

RENVU Specials



Steve

All our projects being able to drive about 16.5K EV miles a year with solar power is just amazing.
Even with $2 gas it is a big savings and I really feel like we are doing our part for the environment.
I love it when being green and saving green come together.

The Leaf we had would show 4.1 miles per kwhr .

God bless
Wyr

That was on the guess o meter .

The Bolt is said to get in excess of 200miles per charge . If we guess 4.0 miles per kWh that would be some where around 50 kWh battery ? Maybe 60 kWh ?

If 60 kWh , and a 6.6 kw charger , that would be ~ 9-1/4 hours , Level 2 charge time . For 100% charge , from " empty " . A doable time for most people for over night charging .

200 mile range gives you 100 miles each way , commute ( more if you can charge some at work . This is a feasible commute , for most people .

I am paying $ 0.10 - $ 0.12 per kWh for electricity . That would be $ 6.00 - $ 7.20
per day , if my math is correct ?

If buying gasoline at $ 2.00 per gallon and 35 mpg highway , that comes out to be ~ $ 11.50 per day for 200 mile commute .

If you commute 5 days per week for 50 weeks a year = 250 days per year = $2,875 for gasoline per year . Or $ 1500 to $ 1800 per year for electricity .

All this is using the info I have read for the Bolt .

Now , if you were talking about a Volt , these numbers change some . Charging at work would have a more significant impact on the numbers ( I think the current Volt may have a 30 kWh battery ? ) . I think the top model of 2017 Nissan Leaf does have a 30 kWh battery ?

Has anyone taken delivery of a Bolt , yet ?

God bless
Wyr

Bolt is 60kWh. Newest LEAF is 30kWh.

Charging at work for free = 1/2 price electricity for my commute. Which means 0.04 cents per kWh here. I will put about 27k miles on my Volt per year, which I estimate saves me about $250 per month. Plus, I get to drive a very nice car.

I really want to see the Bolt do well. In a few years it may be the replacement for my wife's 2012 LEAF.

When the 1st Volt came out some years ago it had something like a 30 mile range which displeased me. The new model with its 300 mile range has just won me over.

Here is some more info on the Bolt.

The Best Chevy Bolt Review You'll Read This Week... - GM Inside News

Bolt EV Owners Drive 4.5 Million Miles
Bolt EV Owners Drive 4.5 Million Miles

Someone squeezed out 310 miles on a charge not the norm but still cool.
They won't be at the dealers here until later this year.

The 2018 Nissan Leaf may give the Chevy Bolt a run for the $. The battery for the new Leaf will be about the same as the Bolt and the Leaf has a much nicer interior.

The 2018 model Leaf will also have autonomous driving capability. Both will be available nationwide this fall.

Anyone else looking also at the 2018 Leaf?

Steve

Chevy water cooled batteries have not lost range like the leafs have. That would be a big thing to look at. This may be a bigger deal in hot climates.
How many mile will the new leaf go?

Pinball,

You are correct that the older Leafs lost battery range due to incomplete battery cooling. The 2018 (and ? earlier) have added extra cooling according to what I have read.

Nissan's 60-kWh, 200-Mile Battery Pack: What We Know So Far


Steve

This is what it said about cooling
"Air cooling. Nissan made the original Leaf battery pack completely air-cooled, and while there were some early, isolated issues in very hot climates like Arizona, those seem to be largely solved today. Liquid cooling isn’t being considered for an entirely new, larger-capacity battery—at least in this prototype form. Forced-air cooling isn’t likely either."

This is encouraging.
"Longer service life. Nissan has revised the electrode material and optimized the lithium electrolyte (it won’t say how in either case), with the net effect being less of a performance drop over years and hundreds of charge cycles. Suppressed lithium corrosion will help durability, too. One of several charts we saw but were instructed not to publish, if to scale, suggested that instead of a standard capacity degradation to 80 percent after five years, it now might be 90 percent."

It is great to see another 200 mile + EV hit the market.

Less cooling will be needed with a larger battery pack as you're not stressing the batteries with as high of C dis/charge rates because it has the extra capacity.

But that will also limit it's charge rate. The one thing I am disappointed with the Bolt is that it really can't do a fast charge like the Tesla, and that basically limits it to being a city commuter car, and not something that can really be used for road trips. Tesla made road trips possible, even if they were a bit less convenient.

They have a DC fast charge option 90 miles in 30 minutes.

I'm excited to see how used ev prices drop in the next 5 years. If it goes like it did with the previous gen, we may become a 2-Leaf household around 2020. My order of preference is:

3. Leaf
2. Bolt (better thermal management, nominally American company)
1. Model 3 (badass design, truly American company)

I bet the Teslas will hold their value very well, so we'll probably end up with another Leaf.

Chevy Volt
 

I'm disappointed with GM's attempt. The Chevy Bolt may travel 230 miles per charge, but that maybe a little impractical without a quick charge option. The chamdemo's (public fast charge) charge stations are still a little far and between. Yes charging at home is fabulous but what if you want to travel to grandma's house this weekend 450 miles away. Are you willing to wait at a public charge station for 6 hrs.? Rapid charging is a necessity. GM kinda washed their hands and neglected, and decided to leave that job to someone else. After all they didn't build gas stations to fuel their ICE vehicles. The range anxiety was always an issue for electric vehicles. This omission to a quick charge infrastructure isn't helping their customers adoption to their new products.

The Tesla model 3 will be able to take advantage of the massive supercharge network at a very competitive price.

I cannot believe GM has left that in the air for their customers. Elon has an open invitation to the supercharge network as long as the manufacturer would help fund the infrastructure. Not a bad deal.!!

Working on the Chevy S-10 EV (The brother to the famous EV-1 that was crushed) having the same drive train. WHAT A WORK OF ART!!! 20 yrs ahead!!! and crushed it??? The inverter and supporting controls pure art work. All the efforts GM took to make the vehicle efficient. Speed controls on fan & pump motors to save energy, very nice design.

GM claimed in 1997 there was no demand for Electric vehicles. Tesla has sold a years production of the Model 3 with not a vehicle to hand the keys over until they made it more than a year later. Unprecedented

Love them or hate them Tesla has covered the bases. You can travel with these cars with no restraints.

Come on big 3. bring on your A game!!

Randen

Bolt does not have a DC Fast Charge port ?

Of course , for me , they are nonexistent in our area . But still ..........

Our late Leaf had one .

Thanks ,
Wyr
God bless

Adequate cooling is needed while charging . The faster the charge , the more heat .

For that matter , with both the battery & the electronics .

God bless
Wyr

Yes DC fast charge is an option $750. CA has a lot more Fast DC charging stations than any other place. We don’t have them here. We don’t have tesla fast charging here either but we do have public charging.
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1493300580

You can configure it here.
http://www.chevrolet.com/byo-vc/clie...7/bolt-ev/trim
Most people will still get Fed tax credit and some my get start tax credit.

We have hardly any public charging stations at all , in our area . What few we have are Level 2 or 120 VAC available for Level 1 .

God bless
Wyr

Pinball,

You posted a while back on your own built charger for your Volt. Would this same set of plans, parts, kit and testing rig work for a Leaf?

Steve

Yes they can even be built to charge a Tesla. I could easily upgrade mine to charge 6.6 KW charging. (I used a cord that can handle it)

They have improved them sense I built mine. They now have a Wi-Fi you can check in and see how much power used to charge car.
Things I like about it.
It is upgradable.
Very low off charging power usage.
Since I have solar power I really closely watch power usage with something is turned off.

Pinball,

I realize that set of EV charger instructions is on another post, but you might want to update it and post it here as it may have a lot more exposure on this thread.

I had to chuckle when you strongly suggested getting the testing rig to avoid "testing on the expensive ev". Many a time, I have plugged something in and winced - mostly all is well, but have had my set of sparks, smoke and fried wires over the years.

So I too like to have a "testing rig" to avoid the above .. . . .

About how much was the total for the parts, kit, software and testing rig? I don't recall seeing that on your other thread.

Thanks!


Steve

This link has pretty close to the prices I paid.
I paid less for Open EVSE and I paid less for the J-1772 cable I got it on a black Friday special.
User:Rjf/Open-EVSE/Parts List - SeattleEVA
The new one has many different options.
https://store.openevse.com/

Not sure I would jump through the hoops to do this but it is interesting.


900+ mile trip in the 238-mile Bolt shows challenges can be overcome with proper planning

https://bro05.blogspot.com/2017/07/9...olt-shows.html

Agree that ALL of my non-vacation travel would be covered with only home charging. That said, I'd hedge my bet with a Level 2, 40A EVSE.

I saw a new Bolt at the Huntsville, AL National Drive Electric Week event this past Saturday. I did not ride in it, but I sat in it, front and back, and was satisfied that I would fit comfortably {I'm 5'9", medium build} in any seat. Materials used were okay too. I thought it was much more attractive inside and out than what a few of the reviews I've read have mentioned.

I asked the owner how long he'd had it. His reply, "I bought it yesterday."

Cool Read
“5 Unexpected Things That Happen When You Autocross a Chevrolet Bolt EV”

What You Learn When You Autocross a Chevrolet Bolt EV