I know the Volt is not a large car but I'm only 5'10" and thin but I'll see when we drive it, maybe this week (mid April 2015 for those reading this in the future).
How is the VW, I've heard nightmares about VW parts and service. There's a 40k auto tranny oil change on the TDI that costs $1000! That's one of the things I'm trying to get away from with the Subaru.
I don't mind the Subaru but it's a constant 4WD and that means that along with lower overall mileage you only get about 20k on the tires. If you blow a tire you need to replace all four because you change the rolling diameter. I don't do it but it stresses the tranny and Subaru just told me, after 30k miles on the last tranny oil change, that I need the oil changed again.
I also have to look at the front clearance of the Volt, it might be a problem in the snow here, not that I'm planning on doing a lot of snow driving, we're retired so most days it's in the garage. I think a car with traction control and front wheel drive will get us through the winter.

Rob

I found this interesting
The mystery of the Chevy Volts that go more electric miles than Nissan Leafs
The mystery of the Chevy Volts that go more electric miles than Nissan Leafs

I know we think nothing about how far we are going to drive. We deplete the battery 2 or three times a day. Sometimes it will get just a few partial charges a day like today. Last week we whet 90 EV miles in that day.

We have 35,461 EV miles and I can tell you that there is probably only three vehicles I could have that many EV miles in just over two years.

A Tesla @ more than double the price but such a nice car. BMW i3 but it was not out when we got our car and it is way more expensive than the Volt.

We are at 81.5% EV for the life of the car the 2016 volt we would be even higher. This weekend we will drive it just outside Charlotte NC and think nothing of it. Feel free to check out my and others stats. Volt Stats: Details for Volt #2013-02615 (Flynn's Light Runner)
This data comes straight from OnStar.

EV cars are much harder to buy than standard cars because you need to look at how you want to use your car and pick what is right for you.
You are in great shape no matter what you buy because you have extra solar power to charge it with.

I have a friend with a Leaf and they love it I have another friend with a Tesla and he loves it. (he is going to let me drive it I get down his way that will be fun he has solar installed at his house.)

Driving on the sun is such a clean way to drive any EV car and it is so much fun!

I'm not willing to splunk down quite so much cash for a new car myself, but I have been looking at the little Mitsubishi iMiEVs. Only 62 miles of range per the EPA. But that is more than enough for my 7 mile one way commute plus errands. The 2012 models coming off of their leases are selling for under $8k! It would be a step up from the 1999 Chevy Metro I'm currently using as a commuter. It is a very basic car from what I hear though. If the Leaf doesn't do it for you, the iMiEV certainly won't impress.

On 4/12/2015 we have had solar up and running for 2 years.
We have made 36.3 MWh of power we are at .10 KWh so that is 3,630 dollars of power.
This last winter we only used solar power to heat with this saved us $725 from a year we only heated with natural gas.
We also powered our EV car 16,500 miles on solar power. We are very happy with solar and there has been no maintenance at all just watch the KWh add up.


Flynns Arcade 12.560kW

EV’s can be a great bargain used. The used Volts were the same price as new ones after the tax breaks when I bought mine but that is not the case now. They are all coming off lease and getting cheaper by the day.
The 2016 Volt is expected to come in cheaper than Gen 1. That will depress the used prices even more.

No matter what one you buy used can be a great way to go and you can get payback much faster.
Less than 8k sounds like a very good bargain.

Funny you should mention this, I've been wondering what a used Volt will cost once the 2016 hits the market. It might be a cheap way for me to get one especially off a lease.

Rob

Things to thing about when buying a used volt.

The hold feature came in 2013. If you know you are going past the EV range and some driving is on interstate and the some is in town. You can use the hold feature to make the motor run on the interstate and use EV where it is more efficient. I like this feature.

2013 Chevy Volt And The New EV Hold Mode: Feature Spotlight | GM Authority

Each year they increased the battery size. You get a few more miles each year newer you buy. It should anyway.

If you buy an extended warranty it is best and cheapest to do it before the 36,000 mile warranty runs out. Do not buy the extended warranty from the dealer you buy it from unless they will give you a great price. You can buy the GM extended warranty from any dealer and I can point you to people that will discount it a lot. This information is on the Volt forum.
I saved many $$$ when I told my local dealer what I could get it for else where he dropped the price 1,000 on the spot and still was not completive.

Depending on the range you need the extra battery my not be a big deal but now you know.

Chevrolet Volt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

“The 2011 Chevrolet Volt has a 16 kW·h / 45 A·h (10.4 kW·h usable) lithium-ion battery pack that can be charged by plugging the car into a 120-240 VAC residential electrical outlet using the provided SAE J1772-compliant charging cord. No external charging station is required.[62] The Volt is propelled by an electric motor with a peak output of 111 kW (149 hp) delivering 273 lb·ft (370 N·m) of torque. Capacity of the battery pack was increased to 16.5 kW·h (10.9 kW·h usable) for 2013 models, which increased the all-electric range from 35 to 38 mi (56 to 61 km). Other specifications remained the same. The battery pack capacity was increased to 17.1 kW·h for 2015 models. This incremental upgrade is likely to reflect in an improvement in range over previous model years, but as of July 2014, the 2015 Volt has not been re-certified with the EPA.[3] “


There some other little things but these are some of the big ones.

There are no tax credits on used EV but the price usually reflects the tax credit by a lower price.

Wow! That's great info and I'll sure use it when the time comes!

We like the e-Golf a lot. There is basically no maintenance on EV's, at all. The only scheduled maintenance I know of is changing the gearbox oil at 150K miles or 10 years whichever comes first, on the Leaf.

No oil changes, no tune ups, no exhaust, no multi-gear transmissions. Brakes get very little wear, because of regenerative braking.

Maintenance cost or savings is something a lot of people over look when looking at EV’s.
That savings really adds up over time.

It is funny I have had people say they would not want to take the time to plug the car in every day.
It is quicker that waiting at a gas pump to fill up your car.

My billing period hits at the halfway point of the months so it will be sometime between now and a few days out. Production was better last month, usage lower this month. Net +2 this month compared to last month. We've had a bunch of rain and cloud cover in the past two weeks otherwise I'd have probably have tipped over 400kwh.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...dayapril13-png

Maybe you could look at this car you would have to go to Maryland or have it shipped. But a lease payment $139 sounds attractive.

2015 Chevrolet Spark EV Price Cut To $25,995; $139 Lease, No Money Down
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1429112455


327 lbs torque 82 EV miles
2015 Spark EV Electric Vehicles | Chevrolet


Now some Volt lease deals.
2015 Volt: Electric Cars - Hybrid Cars | Chevrolet


http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1429190664

We have had days with no sun and finally we put up some good numbers today 86.5 KWh

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1429662592


Where2 what were your April numbers in sunny FL

The 4.4kW array generated 589kWh for the month. :thumbup: Today just happened to be the end of my 29 day electric billing cycle. Looks like my electric bill is going to be ~$37 this month, not bad considering we've been running the A/C all month.

I have 12.5KW solar installed but that is DC.
I have Enphase M215 microinverters they max out 225W X 54 = 12150 KW max.
Today we had our best max power 12.1 Kwh peek it has to stay that way for 6 min to register.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1430185147

Even more important we just made 37MWh for system lifetime.

I am not in the market for more solar right now but these prices looked pretty good. $1.89 a watt with everything you need for Enphase microinverter setup.
They include racking and everything you need to install but the AC wiring.
10KW Grid-Tie System, Grid-Tie Kit 10KW

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1430333368

April was a very cloudy rainy month. We did not make our estimated numbers.
We did make 1,585 KWH and we carried forward 443 KWH not to bad even know we did not make our numbers. We will hopefully push this to the winter to heat with.
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1430510452

Pinball . . .

Would like your opinion on using the M215s on a 275 or 280 watts panel. I understand that these 215s put out 240 watts without clipping. The output of a 275 watt panel is basically about 250 watts max (or less depending on the rating spec you use), but only for a VERY brief period of the day.

If you were buying today, would you use the M250's with a 300 watt panel" or would you go with much less expensive panels, but more of them for a lower total system cost.

Lastly, exactly what does the M250 do (yes, one less grounding wire) compared to the 215 other than having higher output?

Thanks in advance.

Steve

The M215 puts out 225 watts without clipping. The M250 puts out puts out 258 without clipping.

M215 pairs nicely up to about 190-270 but 250-270 works the best.

M215 pairs up with 210-310 but 280-310 makes the most sense.
There are two version of the M215 one needs the external ground and one does not it and it is just like the new M250.

Some inspectors what to see the external ground no matter what you buy.

It seems like if you have to space you can save money going with M215 and more on sale panels. You usually can keep the price per watt installed lower. I want the best equipment at the lowest price per watt. So you can get a faster payback.

People that done have the space go with M250 and the more expensive larger panels.

The M250 can have 16 modules on a branch circuit and that goes to a 20 amp breaker.

The M215 can have 17 modules on a branch circuit and that goes to a 20 amp breaker.
That is because the each M215 is 1.09 amps and each M250 is 1 amp.

Did you see the pricing posted above for the 10K system that was panels racking branch cables to M215 …..

Here is a good sizing doc.
http://enphase.com/global/files/Enph...ightsizing.pdf

What is the model designation of the M 215 that does not need the external ground?

I am getting real close to buying and am thinking of getting the 280 watt panels that are a LOT cheaper than the 300 watt panels. The M 215 should be a very good match and if I get a few minutes of clipping, then I am not wasting much.

Will do 17 panels per string to minimize those costs. I have two large barn roofs, both within 15 degrees of south, that I can use. Probably start on the barn out of sight from the street so the county appraiser won't gig me . . .

Will do 34 panels for now (two rows) and that will be about 9 kW or so. Am on the Revnu lists so waiting for a good catch there (as you recommended)!

Any advice on the different brands of racking?

Steve

I am happy with my Canadian Solar panels they are a good price and perform very well.
There are a lot of good panels out there California does independent testing.

Incentive Eligible Photovoltaic Modules in Compliance with SB1 Guidelines - Go Solar California
I would make sure they are on the list and did well.

Most 60 cell panels work with Enphase.


Make sure you center tap your 17 string.

With the M215-60-2LL-S22-IG, S23-IG, or S24-IG, the DC circuit within the M215 is isolated and insulated from ground


Mark sure you get one of these to carry the panels on the roof.
Grip 4-Head Suction Cup Dent Puller | Auto Body Tools| Northern Tool + Equipment
These stick so well to the glass and one person can carry the panel under your arm very easy.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1430684671


Racking I only have experience with two types so I am not the one to tell you what one this the best to use.

Get the racking from who you order your panels from. It have to be truck shipped and the shipping will be so much cheaper if it is shipped with your panels.
I used unirac U-builder to help know what components I needed to order.
It was very helpful.
http://unirac.com/residential/reside...nt-residential
• then click
• Configure Project

In this example 4/22/2015 12pm-3pm produced 8.64kwh, if clipped at 225wh would have produced 8.1kwh. I would have lost about 2.5% of the day's output on April 22nd with 540wh on the 'clip table'.

My system is 12 280 watt modules with a Solaredge inverter and individual MPPT with SolarEdge optimizers. I've seen my inverter produce 3395 watts before clipping, granted that is rare for me since my inverter isn't undersized for my system and most high production days peak around 3000 watts. I'm not pointed directly south though, this is a southwest azimuth otherwise my peak would be higher and earlier in the day. I'm also in Minnesota where we have less solar resource at our latitude.

You might want to price out a SolarEdge system for what you are doing, especially with such a large system. This will let you you get the electrolytic capacitors off the roof and out of the heat of the sun along with saving money while clipping less and still getting individual module MPPT.

The SE10000A-US is rated for 10950 watts max output and allow you some room for expansion.
You can use multiple strings of 8-25 modules with 5250 max power per string and you can have different lengths to each string.

I think Solaredge is a good solution “Robaroni” on here also has this installed.
They seem to perform well and it I went with a couple string inverters that is the way I would have gone.

A system your size would have 1or 2 inverters and at the time I was looking into it these units were not warranty as long as the rest of the system. (and still are not the inverter is 12 years not 25 years like Enphase) Comparing cost over time include inverter replacement cost or extended warranty to 25 years. The optimizer on the roof was warranty for a long time just not the inverter.

The monitoring setup is top notch. The wiring between panels in cheaper.
It you have an inverter go bad you lose ½ your system until you can get it fixed.

I did not want that one or two points of failure. Buy if this did happen you could just buy an inverter and have the other one fixed you would have a spare.
One of the reasons I like both of these solutions is you get per panel monitoring and that was a must have for me. That way I can easily monitor everything and tell if a panel loses a diode or a micro inverter goes bad.

A plain string inverter was cheaper for me buy I did cost over time and replacing the inverters the cost was almost a wash. You don’t get tax credits on system repairs only installs. I was getting 55% tax credits.

I love this time of year in May we have made 511 KWh so far a nice 7 days.
Hopefully the sun is shining your arrays also.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1431054881

Pinball, your post on inverters (a couple post ago) described exactly why I am looking at microinverters and Enphase in particular.

One important issue not discussed is that the length of DC cable run is VERY short, just a couple feet. With a typical string inverter, you loose a lot of power (IR loss) in the cables that run off the roof to the single string inverter below. Large copper cable, to minimize these IR losses, is very expensive. I would far better use 240 V at low amps in a cable compared to DC runs at high current.

The issue of reliability cannot be overstated. You are exactly correct that the tax credits/deductions are there for new install and do not cover future losses. Enphase does offer 25 year warranties and I know of people that are given new M215s to replace the old 190s that have died.

At the age of 62, I am increasingly looking at low maintenance options as my mantra. Years ago, I could do short term fixes as I would have time/energy. At least I thought I did . . .

But now, I am very less inclined to do something that is half thought through - hence my almost year long examination of what to do. I also have the cash available this fall and it was not available a year ago.

Still think it is a reasonable experiment to do an input - output test of an M215 as I did not see clear clipping on your video grab. It looks like there is a plateau about 225 watts, but hard to tell.

Lastly, I truly appreciate your, and others, words of encouragement. As someone suggested in a private message, I did calculate an internal rate of return for my PV costs, current kWhr rate and expected likely future increases in that rate (I used 1% > inflation). It came out to 22.5%! This was based on a self install - something that I can still do.

This RoR is due to the fact that a PV system is like an annuity - but one that becomes increasingly valuable over time as kWhr rates increase. It sure amazed my CPA as he double checked my numbers (inputs from PVwatts, people here, estimates of PV system costs, etc).

Lastly, I can't control my future taxes, home/farm insurance and those are ever increasing. But I certainly CAN control what I pay for energy. Minimizing infiltration, good insulation, minimizing roof heat conduction, good windows, geothermal heat pumps, solar hot water heater, efficient lighting (CFL, LED) have all been done. Now time to look at PV systems and a car with a battery . . . .

Thanks,

Steve

Yes the graph topped out at 225watts you will not see defined clipping on my system. My solar modules are only 230 watts and 240 watts. These are not big enough to see defined clipping and bigger modules are better with M215’s.

The 230-240 watt were being closed out when I bought my system I was trying to keep cost per installed watt down. It is funny all the sales guys kept telling me the M215 topped out at 215 watts. They really don’t know they just want to make money. At least the ones I talked to.

When I was system shopping I kept a spread sheet that I put in PVwatt and cost info it would tell me exactly my payback time for each option. But I make sure I compared apples to apples if something had a lower warranty I got the cost to upgrade it.

I also see where string inverters need replaced and even under warranty the can take weeks to get fixed. I did not want to have my array down for weeks. I even have a spare M215 setting here just in case one goes bad I will put this one in and send the other one to Enphase for replacement. It is cost effective to have a spare.

It was a must for module level monitoring. This just makes it so easy for me to know what to fix it if there is ever an issue. Converting to 240 volts quickly it very convent a lot of use are very comfortable with standard wiring.

My system is paying itself off sooner than all my estimates. Our power cost increases every year 7-10 % they have been doing that for years now. I don’t see that stopping anytime soon. So my solar array will be getting better returns than my 401K.

I don’t like maintenance either and when a system last 25-30 years we all need to think about it. I am trying to put things in now so some day when I retire my cost of living will be low so I can enjoy my time.

Good luck on whatever you decide just remember the Fed tax credit expires this year and the system has to be inspected and operational before Dec 31 of 2016 to get the tax credit. They could extend it but you never know.

Pinnball, you wrote that "The M250 can have 16 modules on a branch circuit and that goes to a 20 amp breaker."

However, reading the Enphase material they state that only 14 M250 modules should be on a 20A string (17 for M215s).

Comments?


Steve

Yes they are 16 per string. If you look at 230 Volt it will be 14 per string
Microinverters - Enphase Energy
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1431095506

http://enphase.com/global/files/M250_DS_EN_60Hz.pdf

Steve,
DC and AC both follow about the same characteristics at low frequencies so it's not the run of DC so much. my Solaredge intertie micro-inverters are DC going into an accumulator panel that turns the 375 or so string volts into AC for the grid. They have the same efficiency as AC would, not that Enphase is a bad option but my efficiency is just about the same. Either way micro-inverters are the best path to take in my view.

My off grid/intertie system runs at 48 and 72 volts for the two legs so I have to run each one into an MPPT before the Outback inverters. It's a little more of a pain and the run wires are fatter.

Rob

Pinball,

The 30% renewable energy tax credit expires on Dec 31 of 2016, not January 1, 2016. You are correct, that it must be fully permitted and in operation by the expiration date.


Steve

Rob,

I agree that low frequency AC and DC follow the same IR losses. I am comparing something like a "Sunnyboy" (centrally located string inverter), located many feet from the panels where you have a lot of potential loss due to high current DC on the long input lines. High current means fat copper wires ($$). The shorter the distance between the DC source and the inverter makes this loss minimal. The inverter boosts the voltage up to 240 V AC so now the resultant AC current is much less and a far smaller copper wire can handle the total power with virtually no losses. The Enphase are directly under each panel and your Solar edge inverters are just a few feet longer out. Both have minimal high current low voltage DC losses. Not so true with a Sunnyboy . . . . or other centrally located inverter.

I am still on the fence on getting M215s vs M250s. I read on other blogs how some are using 280 watt panels with M215s and getting 250 watts out. Read the attached.

Power One v. Enphase Microinverters - Page 2

Steve

I'm with Pinball using the M215's. Mine are attached to an array of 20 Evergreen 220W panels on my second floor roof. Getting from the roof to the ground floor in DC wasn't going to be convenient wire to hide inside a 2x4 wood frame wall. By using two strings of M215 inverters (10 per string), I was able to run 10AWG 3 conductor UF through the walls, along with a 6AWG ground. I've made 154kWh in the last 7 days, and been able to monitor my panels from as far away as Zhuhai, China.

Also keep in mind that the tax credit is a credit not a rebate. In 2013 when I installed my 4.4kW array, I didn't make a huge sum of money. I ended up rolling almost half of my 30% credit into the 2014 tax year to get the remainder of my 30% PV system cost back. (Uncle Sam got a nice interest free loan from me for all of 2014). If you wait until December 31, 2016 to put a system online, there's nothing I have found that says you'll be able to roll any excess credit forward to claim any remainder in 2017. That is why I am pushing to get my second array (4.6kW) online in 2015, because I'm still not making a huge sum of money working, so I may have to roll some credit forward again. My goal is to retire and not have to give my entire retirement check to the tax collector, or the electric utility.

I had solar credit and my Volt credit in the same year. With fed Volt credit you can’t carry over to the next year but solar you can. The state I could only take $3,500 credit each year so I had to carry some credit over.

This month is so solar sweet so far…
1056 KWh so far this month. I love this time of year!


http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1431721916

Likewise, I'm 113% of estimated with 362kWh generated this month! Next week marks 2 years since I started my self-install. :thumbup: Your 130% of estimated is Awesome!!

Nice numbers!

It just goes to show a couple Enphase DIY installed systems performing very well year over year.

This is EXACTLY why I got interested in energy efficiency, renewable energy, electric vehicles and even started a garden. It is amazing how one thing leads to another sometimes. :thumbup:

The efficiency part was a lot of fun learning about and as we made progress, we were very pleased to watch our utility bills fall.

The renewable energy had the coolest immediate return as far as I'm concerned. There's absolutely no other improvement we made that could dazzle me like watching that utility meter turn backwards with 700w of solar being generated {even if I did have to turn off almost every breaker in the box to shut everything off to do it}.

The EV is my next major purchase, but we're not quite ready yet.

The garden probably won't save us any money, but something about growing our own food that makes laboring in the garden worth it.

I know the month is not completely over but we just hit 2 MWh so far this month solar power.
We have only made over 2MWh one other month last year. As we sit right now just this month carryover 836 Kwh to heat with over the winter. Add that to last month’s carryover 444 Kwh
Total 1,280 banked to heat with.

Our Average day this month was 69.022kWh

It is exciting to hit 2MWh in one month.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1432927887


http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1432929723

I thought this chart was interesting.
We make about the same amount of power in the spring as we do in the summer.
This is showing a rolling year.

This turned out to be out best month yet. 2,144 KWh solar power generated that is our highest month to date.

Post your solar numbers for May when you get them.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1433118664

Collected 633kWh in May with my 4.4kW array. (113% of predicted)

:thumbup:

Excellent numbers!