I have a 600 gallon tank for storage and installed under floor heating. Works pretty good. We have a big house so doesn't heat completely but does good. And keeps the pool warm in the summer

This is a great thread, now comes the juicy stuff,the panels being constructed the inside exchange system.
Will it be heating the floors or the house by a radiator, also how will you heat the household hot water ?

I have plans to live off the grid in the not so distant future so this hot water system will be excellent to learn about. I also want to design a kick *** hot air system with a large rock filled heavily insulated cement covered oven to store heat in.
I am planning on using non combustible materials as i am hoping to get the system that hot, possibly, it would be nice.

I still have not determined how hot these systems can get, Large scale closed loop systems use a gas instead of air and get to 1000 to 3000 degrees or some such incredible heat.
What i would do is keep circulating the hot air threw the rock heat storage all summer, collecting and storing the heat for later use.
The bigger the storage the longer the reserve heating.
They have systems now that store the heat for a year,mind you it's at 1000's of degrees.

I currently have hydronic floor heating in one room in my house. I am renovating another room right now and it will have hydronic floors added and I'll continue renovations and adding the hydronic floors.

The problems with high heat systems is high energy loss (lower efficiency). If you can keep the heat lower you can gain a lot more with less panel area. That is actually one reason why hydronic flooring is so great. Properly designed, you can get away with using much cooler water than a radiator would need to heat the same area.

Well its a rainy weekend here. I was planning on prepping the trench a bit more and finishing up the last bits of digging, but that probably won't be doable until this coming week once things dry out a little bit.

In the mean time, I've received my pex tubing and the pump for the system along with most of the fittings I thought I might need.

With the bad weather keeping me out of the trench, I figured I would work on getting the insulation ready for it. I am insulating the pex tubing with 3 inches of extruded polystyrene insulation, good for a total R value of 15. This is far more insulation than I've seen from any commercial underground tubing solution I've seen, and its also far cheaper. Of course, its also a lot more work!

I'm starting this with 8 4'x8' sheets of xps that are 1.5" thick. I wanted to buy 3" thick pieces but they were not stocked and I had a vehicle to transport them for only one day. This means I'm going to have to glue a bunch of pieces together to get the required thickness. Below shows the cross section of what I'll be assembling. The tubing will be run in the two voids in the center.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1350154919


To assemble the foam I'll be scoring/cutting it with a knife and straight edge / square, and then breaking it. Then, it will be glued together with PL300 construction adhesive specifically meant for foam. I was told regular construction adhesive will eat the foam.

Pictures to come soon.

To glue the foam you can also use PUR Stick in your foam gun. That's what I always use to glue EPS/XPS. You may also want to consider using a table and or circular saw to cut the foam. It cuts straight and breaking it can get messy and slow. The rough edges are impossible to fit snugly together. You'd use a truck load of glue trying to seal it all up.

Good luck!

Interesting product. I'll have to check it out. How does it differ from a solid glue? I didn't pick up too much PL300 adhesive, so I'll look into it when I run out of it.

I agree that scoring/cutting is more work. It doesn't seem to be too messy though. There are some flakes, but a quick vacuum job will sort that out pretty quick. Is a saw really cleaner to use?

Thankfully, the faces that are being glued together aren't the ones being cut, so it should work out.

The cuts are cleaner. Probably doesn't matter if you aren't attaching the cut ends. But it is MUCH faster. It is a bit messy. Just do it on a big tarp. It isn't dusty so unless it's really windy the fuzz won't really go anywhere. I've heard of tube foam glue but never used it. I actually don't know any one who has. I'm sure it works but it would be slow and a pita to apply. And I KNOW PUR Stick lasts for several years at least when underground. It's what everyone I've ever heard of is using for gluing EPS and XPS together when buried.

I got most of the cutting done this weekend. No gluing done yet.

I started with 8 4x8 sheets of 1.5" thick XPS insulation board.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1350254504



Here is how I cut it up. I marked each board out, then used the square to guide the blade as I made the score marks. For the thinner pieces I needed to cut, the 3in and 1in pieces I did cut almost completely through the board so it wouldn't break.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1350254504




All the 9.5" wide pieces cut up from one sheet.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1350254504




Here is the current stack of foam in my yet un-remodeled office.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1350254504

I wanted to do this a couple days ago when I got the PEX, but it was raining all weekend. Tonight I uncoiled the PEX tubing out in my back yard. With it being 51F outside, the PEX is a bit stiff. I had hoped to do this while it was warmer out so I had the heat and sun to help me coax the PEX into a straight line. So, it'll sit outside for a few days while it straightens out.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1350340506

If the weather does not improve you could run hot water threw it.
That is some nice flat property.

I started gluing the foam together tonight. We'll see how well that PL300 glue holds up tomorrow once it has cured.

Gluing the foam together was pretty simple. Just put the glue on with the caulk gun and line up the pieces.

Here is the first set done:

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1350444131



To make sure the pieces were smooshed together good, I laid some plywood boards I had on top of the foam and walked over it a few times.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1350444131



Two down, eight to go. :)

This is going to great seeing the system made, its almost like fist hand, especially being able to read the first hand accounts.
I'm learning ! :)

I gotta come over sometime and help shoot a video!

Photos are great, but they don't always give the best sense of scale and motion.

This project is the most ambitious DIY home-scale solar hot water system that I personally know of. We should try to document the heck out of it, including video!

Come over any time. :)

This project has jumped threads once or twice as it evolved.
It all sort of started when I discovered that a cousin of mine wanted to get rid of the old solar panels on his house, and offered them to me or anyone I knew who would make good use of them.

That meant a Tim & Ben road trip to go fetch some solar panels, and this all sort of went from there.

Here's that video for anyone who hasn't seen it.

Solar Panel Road Trip - YouTube

Yeah, I have the project broken up into different threads for different parts of the project. I makes finding things much easier a few years down the road. Instead of one gigantic thread about getting solar panels, building a rack, building a tank, trenching, putting the panels up, plumbing everything, sizing the pump, etc. you can search for the thread about building a rack and what is involved.

Quick little update. My wife finished digging the trench this weekend! The last little bit under the porch is done. All that is left to do is grade it all, then throw some rock down to provide drainage around the plumbing.

I've been slowly gluing more foam panels together to go in the trench. Still got about half of them to go.

I'll update with some pictures soon.

Here is the trench as it is right now. The trouble light at the end can give you some idea of scale. She dug (with my instruction) too far to the right and ended up having to move the trench over about a foot! The pink you see is the hole in the wall for the pipes. It is currently stuffed with some fiberglass we pulled out of the office.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1352209857

Wow that's a big trench. Guess under the porch, you had to make it big enough for yourselves.

That's almost more of a TUNNELING operation than anything.

Time to re-watch SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION and celebrate.

Well you have practice tunneling if you get sent up the creek

While me and my father in law have been working on the office. My wife and mother in law have been working on the trench.

They first started off by gluing the rest of the foam boards together.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1352555262



They also took some time to sort through the piles of dirt that we had from digging the trench. There were tons of rocks in there. So, they've been going through and picking the rocks to lay them out around the foam for drainage.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1352555262

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...-house-004.jpg

Well, the trench was pretty much finished up yesterday by my wife and mother in law. They did a great job getting it all together.

FYI to those who were wondering, the PEX tubing went into the foam really well. However, I did have the PEX strung out straight in my yard for probably a month before hand, so it was straightened pretty decent. It was also a freakishly warm ~65F day yesterday so the PEX wasn't quite as stiff.

The first thing they did was drag about 10ft of pex into the basement, and they laid the pex in the trench and ran it to the solar panel rack.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...-house-022.jpg



After that they laid the foam board under it, they put the tubing in the grooves, put some glue on it and put the top piece on and threw some rocks on top.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1352640142



Between the basement wall and all the foam board pieces, they shot great stuff between to seal and insulate.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1352640181

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1352640181



Then they just kept going...

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1352640269



This is the solar panel rack end. They just cut everything and angled it up to ground level.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1352640269

For the record, the black Pur Fill can be used under ground and also under water. I probably should have mentioned this earlier.

This is pretty impressive and inspiring.

Thanks, its been quite a bit of planning and work.

I just realized that I completely forgot something while we were running the plumbing... I forgot to run wires for sensors! Its not a huge deal, I'll just have to dig a small trench for them.

Dang!! That sounds like something I would do!!

Oh well, at least you've got some nice girls, to do the digging. ;)
(Those two are amazing)!!

Here are the final pics of the work done over the weekend. As you can see the trench is all done, and the rack has been worked on as well. We got the horizontal beams up and lopped off the tops of the 6x6 posts.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1352837739

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1352837739

Is the rack finished?
Unless I missed it, why did you deviate from your original design of 8 posts (two rows)?

I've never seen a ground rack that only had a single row like this, most always used two rows which I assume is just for extra strength.

Keep up the good work!

If the rack isn't finished yet, are you still planning on adding crossbracing?

The rack is mostly finished. I may add some cross bracing. I'm not 100% sure. I don't have any immediate plans to add a second row of posts. If I get the panels up and it seems like its moving around a ton I'll probably put some in come spring time.

use a bigger wire like 16g for the sensor due to the run, and use 4 conductors in a PVC conduit, just in case.....

Wow this is a really ambitious project! This kind of stuff is a huge inspiration. Keep up the good work!

Thanks Menaus. Its good to hear that its interesting and inspiring for others. :)


Thats not a bad idea. I'm also planning on using shielded wire or something to cut down on intereference. I've had issues with interference with shorter runs with my attic heater setup.

If it's RFI you're worried about, it's not normally a problem with underground cables.
RF noise or radio transmissions in the AM band and higher, don't penetrate more than a few inches into the ground.

For the section of wire that's exposed to the RF environment in your basement,
(if it's not twisted pair) a simple ferrite clamp-on filter should work fine.
Ten TDK 5mm Clip on EMI RFI Filter Snap Around Ferrite New | eBay
The old CRT monitor cables had them installed..

Anyways, if you have some extra wire, I would think about having an extra pair,
for a few watts of PV that you might want to add later on. :)

Don't forget the conduit. Most wire insulation is not waterproof in this application.

Sadly, my home projects have ground to a hault. Earlier this month I was in a car accident and thankfully only had some mild injuries. I'm mostly better now except for a bruised up right wrist. Of course I'm also right handed. I can't lift anything heavy or do any real work until it heals up, and it seems to be taking its sweet time. :(

Sorry to hear that, thankfully it wasn't worse.

Get well soon!

Sorry to hear of your accident...
 

Very sorry to hear of your accident, injuries and the damage to your project. You were lucky, though. I fell off my bike and took a year to feel right again.

This LIFE thing doesn't come with any guarantees...

On a more ecorenovatoristic (newly coined word?) note, I received the glorious electronic thermostat today. She's a real beauty, she is. I'll put her to work right away.

Be well, my friend...

-AC

Hope all goes well in re-hab on the wrist and I hope the new car works out for you. Big bummer getting in an accident.

It can be strange how life keeps us on our toes like this. One time when I had been doing a lot of video encoding (a hobby) and had been used to being able to move the film forward and back with a slider I broke a major piece of my PDA while tinkering with it. My first reaction was to rewind and not make the same mistake....
The moral of that story is that no matter how much we prepare for difficulties they will inevitably creep in to our lives, and it usually happens when least expected. And when it does occur it can be so unexpected that it seems unreal. Just like a film. Cars have such a great potential for disaster that I'm amazed ever time I drive that more people aren't crashing dramatically. Really the speed at which we move in vehicles and the sheer volume of vehicles on the road, operated by random unknown individuals is scary when thought about. Probably a lot of the people you share the road with on a daily basis aren't the kind of people you would invite into your house for dinner and a movie, yet we entrust our lives to them whilst driving.

At least you're still healthy in the basic sense. This is just one more reminder to me to be grateful for all I have.

I wish you a speedy, but more importantly, a FULL recovery.
I also wish that you get the solar thermal system up and running in time to take the edge off your winter. But I'll happily wait with patience while you live your life to see the culmination of all your due diligence on your project.

All my best,

-Colin

Thanks for all the kind words guys. I really am itching to get back to work on things. Its been over a week now and I'm getting antsy haha.