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-   -   groar's solar panels thread (https://ecorenovator.org/forum/showthread.php?t=38)

groar 09-16-08 03:58 PM

groar's solar panels thread
 
During last two days, 3kWc of solar panels have been installed on our roof.

Edit: here is its yearly and monthly production since 2008/11/21:
http://www.bdpv.fr/graphique/product...raphique=petit
http://www.bdpv.fr/graphique/product...raphique=petit
http://www.bdpv.fr/graphique/product...21&an_act=2008

Misc data :
  • Surface : 23.37 m² (3.64 x 7.53).
  • 25 poly crystalline panels of 120W (+/-3%) each.
  • The irradiation is around 1428 kWh/m²/year.
  • The panels should generate 3170kWh/year.
  • Panels' efficiency is guaranteed at 80% for 25 years.
  • The panels are used for watertightness of the roof.
  • Aeration at top and bottom sides permit to cool down the panels.
  • Panels organized into two strings (12/13)
  • The inverter has 2 independent trackers to manage the two asymmetric strings.

The system has not been switched on as when connected to the internal network, the circuit breaker opens. It seams I have a problem on my internal network :(

Next step in a few weeks/months/... when ERDF, to whom I will sale my production, will connect to my inverter :)

Costs :
  • Panels + inverter costs (material + install) : 22k€
  • ERDF install cost : 600€
  • Government aid : 8k€ in 1 year
  • Sale price : ~0.57€/kWh, ie around 1800€/year
  • Taxes : 60€/year to ERDF and 40€/year to government
  • Inverter : 1500€ every 10years
The project should have paid for itself in 10 years.
Loan : 8k€ for 10 years at 2% : monthly payment = 75€

Notes :
  • The high sale price is because the panels are integrated to the house, here they permit the watertightness of the roof. Else it would have been 0.33€/kWh. These prices are guaranteed during 20 years for all sale contracts signed before the end of the year. Next year, new contracts will be signed with sale prices gone down...
  • The government aid is valid for all install done before end of 2009. It covers a part of the material price. For photovoltaïc it's 50% of the material price. This amount is limited to 4000€ by adult and 200€ by children. It's limited in time for the period 2006-2009 for all the ecological projects. In this single project we are using all our possible ecological government aid.
  • The loan has a small interest rate as this is a "validated" ecological project, else it would have been 7%.

(unsorted) pictures are here : Album: install

Denis.

Daox 09-16-08 04:54 PM

Nice install. I like how its integrated into the roof. Keep us updated on the progress.

BTW, what is ERDF?

groar 09-16-08 05:21 PM

EDF (Électricité de France) is the governmental company producing and selling electricity. There exist a few other companies since a few years but EDF is always the main one.

ERDF (Électricité Réseau de Distribution de France) is the company who manages the distribution network of electricity, ie the grid. Its length is about 1.2 million of kms = 0.75 million miles. ERDF is currently a subsidiary company of EDF.

Currently I have a contract with EDF as a buyer.

To sell, I will have a contract directly with ERDF. They'll create a new connection from the grid directly to my inverter through 2 meters : one to count how much I sell and one to count how much I use from this line.

Denis.

groar 11-21-08 06:19 AM

I'm a producer, at least...
 
You know what ? I'm happy :)

ERDF installed his counters Wednesday and the panels' reseller connected the inverter to the counters one hour ago :cool:

So the counters are increasing... By now : 235 Wh in 53 minutes (weather is very cloudy) and I'm saving CO2 (400kg/yr) and uranium :thumbup:

A few additional photos later...
and I have to change my sig ;)

Denis.

Daox 11-21-08 07:25 AM

Awesome! Definitely keep us up to date on this. :)

groar 11-22-08 02:40 PM

Connection photos
 
Two months (*) after the PV installation, ERDF (in fact private electricians mandated by them) came to install different counters :
http://www.groar.org/EcoRenovator/pv...cf1880.med.jpg
Above from right to left :
  • my consumption counter owned by EDF, not connected to the PV installation
  • my selling counter owned by ERDF, with the telereport box on its right so they can ask the counters from the street
  • my consumption counter owned by ERDF, with the main switch on its right
Under is a big box with big fuses inside. On that box is written 200A/60A.

(*) It seams that in my region half people installed during the 3 months before my installation are always not connected... so I will not complain about this 2 months delay.

Then Friday the inverter got connected to ERDF's system :thumbup:
http://www.groar.org/EcoRenovator/pv...cf1885.med.jpg

and after a few minutes to pass the initial auto-configuration, the inverter was producing some electricity :cool:
http://www.groar.org/EcoRenovator/pv...cf1890.med.jpg
(sorry for the poor quality of this photo)
Puissance sortie = Power out

The green LED and the 8 LED on its right are lighten proportionally to the production. At that moment only 265 W was produced, while the installation's nominal production is 3 kW, so only one LED was lit.
On the left of the green LED is a red LED which means the inverter isn't producing electricity when it's lit.

Here are more photos with captions : Album: connection in high resolution.

Next, the first figures...

Denis.

groar 11-22-08 02:41 PM

First figures
 
Here are a few figures, noted this after noon (second day) during very cloudy weather :
  • Power out : 122 W
  • Total production : 1.719 kWh
  • Day production : 1148 Wh
  • Network tension : 233 V
  • Network current : 0.88 A
  • Network frequency : 49.98 Hz
  • Network impedance : 0.3 Ohm
  • PV Tension : #1 212 V / #2 197 V
  • PV Current : #1 0.4 A / #2 0.3 A
Maximum values :
  • Out AC : 677 W - 3.394 A - 238 V
  • Entry 1 : 421 W - 1.835 A - 279 V
  • Entry 2 : 396 W - 1.877 A - 260 V
I have 25 panels. One of inverter's entry has a string of 12 and the other a string of 13. Each entry has an independent tracker, maximizing current production from PV.

Next, the daily/monthly/yearly productions...

Denis.

groar 11-22-08 02:42 PM

Daily/monthly/yearly productions
 
I will regularly update this message with :
  • daily production until 2008/11/30
  • monthly production from 2008/12
  • yearly production once a year

I will also log my monthly production there :
http://www.bdpv.fr/image/logo_bdpv_carre.jpg
You'll be able to see pretty graphs there :cool:

Here is my daily production until 2008/11/30 :
  • Wh(I) : daily production by inverter (Wh)
  • kWh(I) : Total production by inverter (kWh)
  • kWh(R) : Total production by reselling counter (kWh)










Day Wh(I) kWh(I) kWh(R)
21 571 0.571 0
22 1234 1.805 1
23 2370 4.175 4
24 3362 7.537 8
25 532 8.069 8
26 879 8.948 9
27 2366 11.314 12
28 4146 15.460 16
29 774 16.234 17
30 1984 18.218 19

Notes :
  • 11/24: Fun, the total production reselling counter is going faster than the inverter :)
  • 11/29: The reselling counter was displaying 17kWh while the inverter wasn't at 16 yet, ie a 6% bonus :)
  • 11/30: 2008/11 (9.5 days) average : 1.9 kWh = 0h38 of 3 kWc and 53% of 3.6 kWh (November forecast).

Here is my monthly production since 2008/11/21 :












Period kWh(I) kWh(R) Wh(R)/day Forecast %over forecast Wh(I) min Wh(I) max
2008/11 (21-30) 18 19 1900 4.10 -53.66% 532 4146
2008/12 55 58 1871 2.97 -36.96% 232 3627
2009/01 59 65 2097 3.39 -38.10% 74 4604
2009/02 131 143 5107 5.25 -2.72% 823 8173
2009/03241 261 8419 8.55 -1.51% 1327 11753
2009/04237 253 8433 10.87 -22.39% 1254 13792
2009/05325 344 11097 12.35 -10.18% 3432 15270
2009/06349 378 12600 13.47 -6.44% 2619 15575
2009/07346 379 12226 14.23 -14.06% 5967 13916
2009/08303 333 10742 12.26 -12.37% xxx xxx
Total 2064 2233 7863 9.10 -13.58% 74 15575


Denis.

Daox 11-22-08 10:33 PM

Ohh, daily updates. I look forward to it!

groar 11-23-08 09:18 AM

Forecast production
 
Here is the forecast production for my PV solar panels system in kWh per month/day :
Code:

  Jan  Feb  Mar  Apr  May  Jun  Jul  Aug  Sep  Oct  Nov  Dec Year
  95  148  256  316  427  440  427  388  290  201  108  74 3171 cumulative
  3.1  5.3  8.2 10.5 13.8 14.7 13.8 12.5  9.7  6.5  3.6  2.4  8.7 average/day

From EDF's 2007 yearly report, here are the CO2 & radioactive wastes generated by kWh produced in 2007 :
  • CO2 : 59.1 g/kWh
  • long life (>100,000 years) : 0.9 mg/kWh
  • short life (<300 years) : 10.0 mg/kWh

Looking at EDF's monthly reports, here are the CO2 generated in g/kWh :
Code:

  Jan  Feb  Mar  Apr  May  Jun  Jul  Aug  Sep  Oct  Nov  Dec Year
  81  68  54  57  45  43  46  33  55  61  36  47 2002
  63  61  46  58  40  42  50  51  54  56  44  42 2003
  42  49  63  52  45  46  38  45  43  34  40  45 2004
  49  73  69.4 52.8 33.2 41.3 51.7 28.3 44.9 50  55.8 71 2005
  68  75  62.5 22  18  31  46.5 31  44  42  44  48 2006
  42  41  49  57  45  34  35  28  44  59  68  63 2007
  49  40  44  53  27  42  33  24  45  61          2008

As you can see they are fluctuating a lot...
From a 2005 study, this is because they are mainly using coal power plant (900 gCO2/kWh) to reply to quickly fluctuating demand. While European average is at 340 gCO2/kWh, the French production can be separated by use :
  • heating : 180 gCO2/kWh (129-261)
  • lightning : 100 gCO2/kWh (64-151)
  • intermittent use : 60 gCO2/kWh (38-93) (cooking, washing...)
  • continuous use : 40 gCO2/kWh (20-72) (cold, cooling...)

Based upon EDF's 2007 yearly report, our 3kWc photo-voltaic solar panels should save :
  • CO2 : 187 kg/yr
  • long life radioactive wastes : 2.85 g/yr
  • short life radioactive wastes : 31.7 g/yr

The reselling price is currently at 0.57187€/kWh, so the income for the first year should be around 1813€ (2284$ at 1,2595$/€).

Denis.


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