EcoRenovator

EcoRenovator (https://ecorenovator.org/forum/index.php)
-   Conservation (https://ecorenovator.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=8)
-   -   What temperature do you keep your house in the winter? (https://ecorenovator.org/forum/showthread.php?t=122)

Daox 10-17-08 11:33 AM

What temperature do you keep your house in the winter?
 
http://ecorenovator.org/wp-content/u...ermostat01.jpg

I currently have my house set for 68F (20C) degrees while we are home, and 63F (17C) while we are away and at night. (the picture is just an example)

I'm contemplating turning it down more at night. I don't buy the whole 'if you turn it down too much it takes more energy'. That, plus I turned off the furnace last night and woke up to 63.5F degrees. Its not real cold out yet, but I also don't have my attic insulation done yet either (which will over tripple the insulating value).

What do you have yours set to?

cmittle 10-17-08 12:58 PM

I just set up the heat routine for our programmable thermostat a day or two ago. For now I set up the occupied temperature at 70, overnight at 63 and unoccupied at 63. You bring up a good point and now have me contemplating setting the unoccupied temperature a little lower. Perhaps ~55..?

Also, I almost forgot to mention that I turned my ceiling fan on last night as suggested and that did seem to help a little bit.

SVOboy 10-17-08 01:37 PM

68 when home, don't know what in the night but it's still a little warm since we sleep upstairs.

http://ecorenovator.org/wp-content/u...ermostat03.JPG

insaneintenti0n 10-17-08 03:59 PM

1 Attachment(s)
today is our first day here that it's been <70 outside. 61 today. with no heat on at all so far, my house is at 76 :)

but, once the real winter hits... probably 67/68 when i'm home (actually i do 70 in the morning when i wake up, i HATE the cold) and probably like 62 when i'm asleep. i'll decide probably next week or the week after.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1380115662

groar 10-18-08 06:29 PM

I would say 21C (70F) by day (my wife would say 19-20C/66-68F), 16C (61F) by night and when not at home during less than a few days. If not at home during several days then 3C (37F).

My last winter experience has been concluded by the fact a programmable thermostat is a must. Our next change will be to have one, and use it ;)

Currently we have the house divided in 2 zones with one program by zone. The program consist of "hot" or "cool" for each quarter of hour. At each radiator you configure the "heat level" for hot, but it's with a wheel graduated from 0 to 7 and doesn't correspond to a temperature. Usually the "cool" is about 3C (5F) under the "hot".

During the first winter in our house, we didn't had any problem. As the programs are 24h, during week-ends we had to manually put some radiators on "hot" in the morning and put them on "program" in the evening.

During the second winter in our house, because of our baby, the zone with the bedrooms had to be more frequently on "hot". Additionally, the weather was colder and more variable, it was then more complicated to correctly configure the internal temperature and generated an additional 200 electric bill :( (in France the you pay a bill every month, but they get the counter value only twice a year).

Last week-end we bought a programmer. The salesman said us it could be programmed by temperature, but in fact it couldn't, it could be programmed only by "hot", "cool", "cold" and "off" :( so we get it back to store and we'll try again next week, hope the temperature will not make us heat the house before that.

Denis.

insaneintenti0n 10-20-08 07:01 AM

WAH, winter hit like over night, lol. some of the work i've done seems to be paying off (at least in terms of the house being warmer than outside.

my basement doesn't seem bitter cold (i sealed all the windows where there used to be drafts coming in)

but, my biggest problem is still my kitchen. it was 50 degrees in there this morning (vs 63 in my living room - other side of my house - & 34 degrees outside w/ no heat on in my house)

so, the kitchen is going to be my biggest focus. hoping to seal the overhang tomorrow (putting up the plastic barrier over the insulation i've added before), and then see what else i can do. It just doesn't help that that side of the house gets next to no sun during the winter.

Higgy 10-20-08 09:57 AM

Man, you guys have your's set lower then we usually do. We usually have it set to 69 while we're at home, 70 during the cold winter months from December till February. On certain really cold days, we'll up it to 71. The only reason we'll up it to 71 sometimes, is because we spend a lot of time in our living room, and it's the farthest from our furnace not to mention the duct work going to the living room vents has like a bunch of bends in it in order to get there, so it's not a nice even flow. So normally the living room is the coldest place in the house. I just bought a small heater for the living room to see if that would warm up the area a little more so that we don't have to have the heat up for the whole house as much.

Normally I'd drop it to only 68 in the winter when we're not home...and at the moment, my wife is on mat leave for a year so I can't really turn it down. She also breast feeds at night so I can't turn it down past 69 at night either until my son is sleeping through the night. I may just move that heater into his room and tell her to turn it on when she has to get up to breast feed.

In any case, once that's all over, I'm going to try dropping it to 65 at night and when we're not home to see what kind of difference that makes.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...lar/r029-1.jpg

PaleMelanesian 10-20-08 01:49 PM

70 when we're there, 60 when we're gone, 65 at night. Installing the programmable thermostat saved us several hundred dollars over the previous year, when it was simply 70 all the time.

IndyIan 10-21-08 03:08 PM

We heat with wood so we keep our place between 58F (cold enough that making a fire seems like a good idea) and maybe 68F (when we quit adding wood). For some stretches when its really cold outside we'll have the fire going for a few weeks at a time, not full roaring, but banking the coals at night so we don't have to relight it.
I find having to exert a small amount of physical effort is a great moderator on how warm the house "must" be. Also with the wood stove you can just stand in front of it for a couple minutes and get warmed up regardless of what the house is at.
We also have the window open a crack in our bedroom down to the 30's F outside, so maybe its in the 40's inside sometimes, I've never bothered to check. Fresh cool/cold air is good for sleeping!
Neither one of us is "skinny" so the low temperatures don't bother us to much, some of our "delicate" friends can't handle it so we throw some logs on before they show up.
In a well insulated open concept house with thermal mass(we have a concrete main floor), heating with a woodstove isn't really a big pain in the butt, we don't burn very much wood and there are no big temperature fluctuations. It took a couple years to figure out how to run the stove well and get our wood handling figured out but now its pretty painless. We save alot of money for a bit of labour, or its like having a part time job that pays $50-75 an hour...

Higgy,
Try one of the oil filled radiators for your living room, we use a couple as back up for our wood heat if we are going to be gone for a weekend. They are silent and have a low surface temperature.

Ian

truckncycle 10-21-08 03:10 PM

We keep our heat at 67 all the time except when we have guests over. We will bump it up a few degrees for them during the day. We have a heat pump so keeping a constant temp prevents the aux heat from kicking on. I used to avoid the aux heat mostly because it stunk. I think that is probably because the water that collects but never evaporates in the air handler from Summer cooling would grow stuff. I have started cleaning out the water in the fall before we turn on the heater. Since that seems to help, I might program the thermostat to go down to 65 and then back to 67.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1380115471

dremd 10-21-08 06:34 PM

As warm as it will stay without using heat.
When forced to use heat 65~68.

toyobug 10-22-08 02:29 PM

63 at night, 68 during the day..

bikin' Ed 10-28-08 10:54 AM

really?
 
1 Attachment(s)
I don't remember the lasttime I saw 65 on the t-stat. We keep it set at 60 at night and while at work and 63 when we're home on weekend and in the evening. When my wife isn't having a hot flash she does sometimes use a portable electric heater in whatever room she is in.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1380207114

insaneintenti0n 10-28-08 03:55 PM

1 Attachment(s)
it got COLD today. so you know what, screw it. It's 49 outside w/ 30mph wind (had to get my trash can that was a block down the street). Was 64 in my house when i got home (yea, warm compare to you Ed, but i like it at 80 during the summer, and cooler is COLD, so i'm screwed). Themostat is set at 71 now. Though, it's been running for an hour and is only at 67. (why i hate radiators, though once it's off, they'll stay warm for 2-3hrs - i hope)

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1380207197

Tony Raine 10-29-08 12:32 PM

during the day when my wife and i are at work, i just turn the heat off. when we get home, i'll turn it up to about 65-67, and keep it around that through the night. in the morning, i'll turn it up to 70. only takes about 15 minutes or less to get it up to there. then i turn it off for the day. the house is pretty well insulated, even if its 35 outside, it stays about 60 inside.

GenKreton 11-09-08 01:01 PM

In my new apartment we agreed to 62 during the day and 58 at night but in Vermont I knew several houses full of undergraduates that wouldn't turn the heat above 55.

We have sweatshirts and blankets for a reason. There's no reason to need to wear t-shirt and shorts year round - just keep it warm enough for the fingers to get their work done.

jwxr7 12-18-08 11:39 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I pretty much run the t-stats in the mid 50s all the time and use wood when we want warmer. My wife hates it but it's one way to keep from having huge propane bills. The woodburner is pretty much always warm so that zone never kicks the boiler on. In reality, if we keep the fire fed, the majority of the house is in the mid to upper 60s. The room with the fire gets in the mid 70s at times. We use electric space heat in places like the bathroom when taking showers and other places where the wood heat doesn't get as well(Like my daughter's bedroom). In the winter I regret having such a big house :(.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1380207461

TimJFowler 12-18-08 11:47 PM

Thermostat is set at 65, but the indoor/outdoor thermometer usually registers around 62-ish. It's winter, so my wife and I dress warmer and spend quality time close together. ;)

Tim

MetroMPG 12-19-08 11:14 AM

Day: 17C / 63F

Night: 15C / 59F

Electric heat and no south facing windows, woohoo!

GenKreton 12-22-08 10:21 PM

1 Attachment(s)
After the first heat bill came in we agreed to just wear more clothing inside and further reduce the apartment temperature by roughly 3 degrees during the day and night. It does impact my typing speed sometimes if the fingers start to feel cold, though.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1380206875

groar 01-06-09 04:14 PM

France beat its own electricity consumption yesterday
 
Because of the cold temperature all over the country, the electricity consumption has been beaten in France yesterday and today, respectively : 90.200 megawatts (MW) at 7PM and 91,500 MW at 7PM. The previous record was 17 December 2007 with 89,480 MW at 6:58PM.

RTE, the society managing the very high and high voltage lines declared having anticipated the event. They asked their bigger clients with whom they have a special agreement to limit their consumption. They also bought by anticipation on different markets.

Currently in France 56 of the 58 nuclear plants and most of hydro plants are active. Tomorrow the temperature will continue to go down all over the country (night at -5 to -8C in hotter regions/23 to 17F) but Wednesdays' consumptions are lower than Mondays and Tuesdays. Even if they anticipated, they asked 2 specific geographical region to lower their consumption today to avoid supply problems.

My consumptions for last 2 days (kWh) with nobody at home from 9AM to 6:30PM :

daynight (off peak hours)day (peak hours)
monday1429
tuesday1233

Note : off peak is from 10:30PM to 6:30AM.
To be compared to last week min/average/max of 9/13/16 (night) + 22/29.4/35 (day) with someone at home all day long.
Happily since Sunday we are using one ceiling fan in the living room and when nobody was at home :) which we didn't used last week.

Most interesting information :
  • They said that a lowering of 1C of the external temperature increases the electricity needs in France (63 millions inhabitants) by 2,100 MW, which corresponds to twice the consumption of Marseilles (826,000 inhabitants).
  • They also said that lowering the internal temperature by 1C decreases the bill by 7%.

Denis.

groar 01-07-09 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groar (Post 1641)
Because of the cold temperature all over the country, the electricity consumption has been beaten in France yesterday and today, respectively : 90.200 megawatts (MW) at 7PM and 91,500 MW at 7PM. The previous record was 17 December 2007 with 89,480 MW at 6:58PM.

Record beaten despite RTE's consumption forecasting : 92,400MW at 7PM.

Our consumption at home beat a record too : 62kWh today (ie +40% to an average Wednesday) to compare to the 43 & 45 kWh during the last 2 days, but we were at home all day long today (I worked from home to avoid snowed roads and 1st day of winter bargains) while nobody was at home during daylight Monday and Tuesday.

Quote:

Most interesting information :
  • They said that a lowering of 1C of the external temperature increases the electricity needs in France (63 millions inhabitants) by 2,100 MW, which corresponds to twice the consumption of Marseilles (826,000 inhabitants).
  • They also said that lowering the internal temperature by 1C decreases the bill by 7%.

Funny, today Marseilles in under 20cm (8inches) of snow which has never been seen... and people are skiing in the streets :cool:

Nowadays in France 30% of houses are using electric heating, while only 3% were 30 years ago... But this corresponds to 7% of French consumption so while France exports 12% of its production, when the temperature goes down it has to start its fuel and coal plants, then import...
Since yesterday Russia closed the gaspipes to Europe. If France doesn't depend a lot of it (15%), some Central European countries (Balkans, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Macedonia, Hungria and Bulgaria), have no gas anymore and so no heat anymore...

Denis.

james 01-19-09 07:21 PM

1 Attachment(s)
We have only wood heat here. In the winter we close off most of the house and move into the large living room. Our bed is actually in between the living room and the kitchen/dining room so it is like a cabin. When the kids and wife are home I keep it 62-64 inside. When they are gone more like 56-57. I let it go out every night without stoking the fire (unless it is really cold). Then in the morning it is typically 52 and my wife hides in bed with the kids for 45 mins until it warms up. I have only heard my daughter say she was cold once. My wife finds it to be a bit of a pain though. A while back I used to live in a house with a bunch of fellow undergrads and we kept it around 53...that felt quite cold. Our house with the wood heat feels much hotter. If we are cold it is 80 deg right by the wood stove, so we just pull up a seat.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1380208890

Doofus McFancypants 01-20-09 11:54 AM

we used to have at 65F- this year we lowered to 63F and are using the celing fan more. Have not noticed it feeling colder excelt for the rew days we got near 20F in atlanta.

Wife is stay at home with kids - so there is always someone there.

Daox 11-29-10 02:56 PM

A bit of an update here. The first year I was in the house I ran 68F while at home, 63F at night and while away. I have since changed to 68F while at home in the evening, 60F at night and in the morning before leaving for work, and 50F while away for more than a day.

I am thinking of changing it yet again to 68F while at home in the evening, 55F at night, bumping it up to ~63F in the morning, back to 55F while we're gone till the evening, and 50F while away for more than a day. This would make it more comfortable while we are awake and at home, yet potentially save some more energy. Anyone think there is any savings to be had there? I'm not sure how often the furnace kicks in overnight...

strider3700 11-29-10 04:46 PM

I've noticed that if I let the heat drop too low at night, 20 day, 16 night type range, I appear to be using more energy then if I maintain at 18 overnight.

The reason being the 4 degree jump I ask for in the morning kicks the back up heater for the heat pump on and that is a large electric furnace. It will run for 30-40 minutes to get things back up to temp then coast along at 20. If I leave it near 18 just the heat pump runs for a few minutes every hour or so.

RobertSmalls 11-29-10 05:38 PM

I've got mine set for 64F during the morning and the evening, up from 62 last year. It's at 45 while I'm at work, and 62 while I sleep.

Anybody want to join me for a "furnace-free day" on some sunny day in December? I tried this on Thursday, and the temperature only dropped to 55F in the first 14 hours, but I called it off when I came home with the traditional Thanksgiving stomachache. You'd be surprised how easy it is to stay active and comfortable in temperatures that most folks would frown upon.

Strider: my sister reports the same thing about her heat pump. I told her she needed a more advanced controller. However, if your heat pump would have to run for the better part of the day to hit its target when you come home, I guess there's not much to be gained anyway.

Piwoslaw 11-30-10 02:43 AM

One of the first things I did after moving into my Wife's house was to buy a temperature controller. I got the second cheapest model, so there are three programmable scenarios, for each you program either "night" or "day" temperature for each hour. "Night" and "day" temps can be set up to 0.25C (0.5F), with either 0.5C or 1C tolerance. I have the latter with 16.5C (62F) at night and 18.5C (65F) during the day. Night temperature is only from 9pm to 9am (now that Dad-in-law has retired there is almost always someone at home, so slim chances for night temp during the day), but now that winter is here for good I'll have to start day temp at 8am. These temperatures and times are a compromise between the gas bill and the number of complaints I get (I'm the only one who has taken the effort to read how to program and set the controller). Whenever I know that there will be noone at home I set to night temp earlier for a few hours. Now Dad-in-Law has gone for a two week vacation and I have the house at night temp for 22 hours per day:)

Last year, during temperatures below -25C (-13F), I had to drop the day temperature by 0.5 or the furnace would not turn off.

Our t-stat is located in the living/dining room, so when there are guests, or the 170W room heater (37" LCD TV) is on, the living room is too warm to trip the furnace, so the rest of the house cools down to 15C (59F).

I've thought about upgrading to a controller with an outdoor temperature sensor, but someone told me I won't see much difference until the furnace gets replaced with something more efficient. So we're planning for a condensing furnace within a few years. I'd also love to split the house into two heating zones, but it's just not possible without a very expensive renovation:(

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertSmalls (Post 9817)
Anybody want to join me for a "furnace-free day" on some sunny day in December? I tried this on Thursday, and the temperature only dropped to 55F in the first 14 hours, but I called it off when I came home with the traditional Thanksgiving stomachache. You'd be surprised how easy it is to stay active and comfortable in temperatures that most folks would frown upon.

Sounds like cooldown testing. I haven't done that this year, but since we woke up to -10C (14F) this morning I doubt I'd get too far on one coast.

Xringer 11-30-10 08:26 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Because of the over-load problems with the Sanyo ASHP, when we try to turn it up in the mornings,
I left it set for 21 (69.8F) last night when I went to bed at midnight.
It was coasting along at 480 watts..

The power monitor alarm went off at 03:15 AM and was displaying 2.5 KW..
(The Sanyo is max is 2.6KW). I turned it down to 20, but the power went up to 2.7KW.
Down to 19.. 2.8KW!! I turned it off for the night.. :(

This morning, the power line voltage is between 126 and 129 vac..
129 x 2 = 258 vac on the Sanyo.. That's not good..

The manual says "187 to 253 Available Voltage Range"

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1380209069

AC_Hacker 11-30-10 12:34 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Xringer (Post 9830)
This morning, the power line voltage is between 126 and 129 vac.. 129 x 2 = 258 vac on the Sanyo.. That's not good..

The manual says "187 to 253 Available Voltage Range"

I think you need a big-BUTT power conditioner (not a surge protector, not a UPS). These are popular with Uber High-Fidelety geeks, also can be found in stores that might carry power conditioners for commercial computer installations.


I got mine at a Tech Surplus store for about $15 (an amazing deal, they thought it was a broken UPS). It uses no battery and weighs about 45 pounds.

Trust the iron.

Regards,

-AC_Hacker

Daox 11-30-10 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertSmalls (Post 9817)
Anybody want to join me for a "furnace-free day" on some sunny day in December?

Sounds like fun to me. I asked the wife, she said it was fine as long as she was gone! :) Oddly enough, she'll be gone for a whole day this weekend, so that works for me.

strider3700 11-30-10 03:00 PM

I've actually found that on sunny days the house heats up unless the temperature is below 0C outside. Pretty much every sunny day is furnace free day around here.

Xringer 11-30-10 05:33 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by AC_Hacker (Post 9839)
I think you need a big-BUTT power conditioner (not a surge protector, not a UPS). These are popular with Uber High-Fidelety geeks, also can be found in stores that might carry power conditioners for commercial computer installations.


I got mine at a Tech Surplus store for about $15 (an amazing deal, they thought it was a broken UPS). It uses no battery and weighs about 45 pounds.

Trust the iron.

Regards,

-AC_Hacker


I was looking at them online.. The HiFi guys use some fancy looking stuff.
Big bucks too. Most of the less costly units will not do 3kw..

The NStar tech found out that my section of the Grid was putting out
127/254 in two neighboring towns. He tweaked the local transformer
and got me down to 124/248! I'm inside the "187 to 253" Voltage Range!

Maybe some day we can get the regular 230-240 service!


The Sanyo seems to like 248 better.. It only went nuts once today.
I tried to turn up the temp a little too fast..
I guess we will see tonight. I'm hoping not to be awakened by Beep-Beep again tonight..
I've been installing my new panels all afternoon and I'm beat..

PS:
I tried leaving the Sanyo set to 21C (69.8F) overnight last night, but failed..
Now that the line voltage is lower, I'm going to try it again.

So, starting at midnight tonight, I'm going to leave it at 21C and see how much more power is used.
Since the average lately has been 10-11 kWh, then 12 to 15 on average might be acceptable.
Might as well get it while it's cheap.. Besides, the cold isn't helping the arthritis in these old bones..

Note:
It's 8AM Wednesday and the Sanyo seems to have used 2.67 kWh (56 cents) since midnight.
The outside temp was in the mid 40s F.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1380209560

MN Renovator 11-30-10 08:55 PM

20c=68f
15c=59f
10c=50f

Away from home: Temperature above freezing, I'll set the temperature to 45 degrees. Below freezing, I'll set it to 50 degrees. After the house was at 45 degrees for a long time I measured water temperature out of the faucets and got 39 degrees. 7 degrees to freezing is a little too close for comfort when it comes to water in pipes for me.

When I'm home and active: Usually at 55 degrees unless I'm going to be doing a bunch of moving around. I'm usually not bothered by this temperature at all unless I spend more than 30 mins in the kitchen which is about long enough to cook up almost anything. This is with jeans, tshirt type wear. Socks required on the bathroom tile and kitchen hardwood.

If I'm home and sleeping: I'll set(or leave) the temperature at 50 degrees and use my mattress pad heater to make up the temperature. With the 100 or so watts, if I leave it on high I will sometimes wake up to turn it down.

If I'm home and in bed: I spend plenty of time on the computer, tv, eating, reading various books or magazines and if I can do it from bed, I will when the weather is cold. 50 degrees for this too.

When I have people over: I turn it up to 65 degrees, nobody has ever complained. Most people enter my house and say it feels a bit warm as they take off their coat. Due to cold and snow, I usually don't invite people here that often during the winter.

The only thing that kills this is if the humidity drops too low in the house because then suddenly even 60 degrees feels cold. I balance the humidity with how I take showers and leave the door open between the shower and the bedroom with the exhaust fan off. At 40% humidity 65 feels cold. At 55% humidity, I can handle 55 degrees. 60% and I can comfortably walk around for awhile in the house at 50 degrees. I must be careful though, right now it is 18 degrees out and 55% humidity is condensing the bottom of my windows so there are limits to how far I can go with humidity to try and maintain comfort. I'll add thick layer over my tshirt.

Heat loss is a weird thing. If I set my house from 50 degrees to 70 degrees and turn it down to 50, it will lose 4 degrees in the first 15 minutes(possibly the anticipator on the digital thermostat and thermal mass absorption though), then will drop slower and once it gets down to 60 or so it takes pretty much all day to get to 50 again. On recent 20 degree days, at 50 degrees the furnace cycles on once every 2 hours or so for 5 minutes or less. At 55 degrees, it's 5 minutes every hour or about an hour a day. At 60 degrees it runs for 1.5-2 hours a day. Haven't tested 70 degrees. If I did I'd have to wait hours for thermal mass temperatures to equalize to the higher temperature and then pay attention to it.

RobertSmalls, I'll join your 'furnace-free day'. I've already joined in November, more or less. I've run an entire day at about 20f outside starting by running the temp from 50f to 65f when I woke up(~11f degree rise per hour). Waiting for the cooldown and ended up going to sleep and wasn't sure when it actually kicked on for 50f again. The problem is, my house was designed at a bad angle where in the winter the sun comes down a little too south for my SW wall to get enough solar gain to be worth it but in the summer the sun is still up as it passes west and the house gets very hot. ...so my losses aren't helped much with gains from the sun, which really sucks. I've considered chopping the SE wall of the bedroom, using an appropriate awning for the summer with a window that will allow as much of the winter solar heat in as possible and filling in the NE facing wall that has a window that doesn't do much. ...oh wait, I'd be staring at a house and it would block a decent amount of the sun. S#$%

strider3700 12-01-10 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MN Renovator (Post 9854)
...so my losses aren't helped much with gains from the sun, which really sucks. I've considered chopping the SE wall of the bedroom, using an appropriate awning for the summer with a window that will allow as much of the winter solar heat in as possible and filling in the NE facing wall that has a window that doesn't do much. ...oh wait, I'd be staring at a house and it would block a decent amount of the sun. S#$%

Remember that if you ever move. My last house was on a north facing hill. I needed larger to fit the ever growing family and insisted on effectively perfect solar exposure. It's made a huge difference. Everything else about the house could be wrong and I'd still be ok with it because the only thing I can't change is the position of the sun.

MN Renovator 12-01-10 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider3700 (Post 9863)
Remember that if you ever move. My last house was on a north facing hill. I needed larger to fit the ever growing family and insisted on effectively perfect solar exposure. It's made a huge difference. Everything else about the house could be wrong and I'd still be ok with it because the only thing I can't change is the position of the sun.

The energy usage doesn't seem too bad considering the lack of winter sun, that at least 9 of the windows in this house have a 5/8"(1.5cm)air gap all the way around that isn't sealed yet(active project at the moment), only about 8 inches or so of settled cellulose insulation in the attic and a few spots I've identified on the walls where entire sections between studs appear to have insulation problems as they read 10 degrees colder than the section right next to it. I have a feeling it might not be too bad once I get the attic up to R60, fix the air gaps and insulation voids. I'll probably raise the temp to 60 or 65 once that is done. If my furnace breaks in an expensive way such as the heat exchanger cracking or something, I'll have a 95+% efficient natural gas furnace to replace the 76% efficient non-condensing once I have now.

osolemio 12-02-10 08:52 AM

I am (still) doing my super major overhaul with solar electricity and heating, long term heat storage, insulation, drain water recovery and ... g.. knows what. For now most rooms is regulated by simple thermostats on each radiator, although a newly built room and a refurbished ones now have underfloor heating.

The new heating system (hot water buffer) regulates the outflow temperature in two independent heating circuits, so I use #2 of those for the underfloor heating, and #1 for the original radiators.

Temperature here is just around 70, but as each room has it's own mind, it varies a bit.

My project is so comprehensive that just speaking of temperature in itself is only part of it. I have almost 1000 USG of water heat storage, apart from the 300 USG main water buffer tank (hot water is piped, not conventional tank water, so it can be used for cooking, coffee and so on).

As all window glass has been changed to super efficient glass, it was interesting to see how well the underfloor heat would keep the new rooms warm. A few days ago it was almost -20F (actually, C and F meet at -18), and that morning I could feel the cold from the window.

AC_Hacker 12-02-10 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osolemio (Post 9903)
I am (still) doing my super major overhaul with solar electricity and heating, long term heat storage, insulation, drain water recovery and ... g.. knows what.

osolemio,

It sounds like you may have one of the most comprehensive renovations going on at EcoRenovator. We would all like to know more details and to see photos of your progress.

Quote:

Originally Posted by osolemio (Post 9903)
...a newly built room and a refurbished ones now have underfloor heating...

I have at least one room in which I want to put underfloor heating, and I would like to know all the details you could possibly share about how you are doing yours, with diagranms & drawings & photos if possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by osolemio (Post 9903)
The new heating system (hot water buffer) regulates the outflow temperature in two independent heating circuits, so I use #2 of those for the underfloor heating, and #1 for the original radiators.

Why two independant circuits? Is it because one was already in place and you didn't want to disturb it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by osolemio (Post 9903)
I have almost 1000 USG of water heat storage, apart from the 300 USG main water buffer tank (hot water is piped, not conventional tank water, so it can be used for cooking, coffee and so on).

What kind of storage tank are you using for heat storage? That's a very large storage tank, but when I did the calcs for my place, I came up with the need for a similar sized tank.

Quote:

Originally Posted by osolemio (Post 9903)
As all window glass has been changed to super efficient glass, it was interesting to see how well the underfloor heat would keep the new rooms warm. A few days ago it was almost -20F (actually, C and F meet at -18), and that morning I could feel the cold from the window.

When you say super efficient glass, do you mean truple pane? I know that in Europe there are much better windows avaulable than in the U.S., can you give us more detail?

Regards,

-AC_Hacker

osolemio 12-02-10 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC_Hacker (Post 9911)
osolemio,

It sounds like you may have one of the most comprehensive renovations going on at EcoRenovator. We would all like to know more details and to see photos of your progress.
...

Oh, it is quite comprehensive indeed. I have posted various things about it here already if you follow my posts. Let me try to answer your questions one by one, sorry don't know how to quote as nicely as you did :)

Underfloor heating is not that difficult. But if you keep a mix of radiators and underfloor heating, you should either have two heating loops, or you could have one loop where the water goes to the radiators first, then through the underfloor heating (possibly via a shunt).

There is not that much to it. You got to have the right tubing, and I have something called aluflex, as it is easier to work with. It is aluminum inside, covered in some coating. You can bend it and it stays in shape, but if you bend it too many times it breaks! Not a problem as long as you are gentle. You can also use tubing without aluminum, just make sure it suits the purpose. Insulate the base if needed, then put out a iron mesh used to fortify concrete with something to lift it up an inch or two. Then route the piping keeping a distance of about half a foot or so, depending on the distance from the tubing up to the top of the floor. If you want an even distribution, keep it closer. I am sure there are lots of good guides on this if you search online.

Regarding two circuits, I explained it above already. The Okofen allows quite good control over the heating, and the radiators require a much higher temperature to keep the house heated when it gets cold outside, while the underfloor requires a lower temperature. Also, the underfloor takes hours or even days to react, while the radiators are much quicker.

The water tanks I have is the 300 USG Okofen tank as main buffer (it includes the control), then I have three pallet tanks, each just over 300 USG as well. These are dug into a hole in the ground, insulated and then on top, there is the new room of the house (expansion). Piping from there goes to a system where I can mix solar heat, stored heat with the Okofen buffer, as well as route heat under the house, and even around the foundation of the house (!) which I am about to insulate, on the outside (long story).

The glass is way better than the old glass I had, but not the super best you can get. Only dual layer, with argon gas - the krypton gas is just too expensive and not that much better. I cannot go triple layer as I exchange glass in existing frames and they do not allow more than a certain thickness. We had a lot of snow recently, and those windows in the roof (45 degree angle) need to be cleared of snow! Before it would eventually melt, but not any more. Too good insulation in them. The windows are brand Velux, those at 45 degrees, I don't know what brand the glass is.

Daox 12-02-10 11:03 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by AC_Hacker (Post 9911)
When you say super efficient glass, do you mean truple pane? I know that in Europe there are much better windows avaulable than in the U.S., can you give us more detail?

Serious Windows use multiple layers of plastic between two layers of glass to add to the R value of the window. They have the highest R-values I've ever seen in any window. Their highest R value rating is 11.1 for a non-opening window.

Serious Energy Efficient Building Materials

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1380209902


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:35 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Ad Management by RedTyger