New Style of HPWH
 

Saw this linked to on another Forum and thought it was interesting. It seems one of the main complaints of HPWH's is that it pulls the heat out of your house if installed in a basement like they usually are. This solves that, unfortunately I don't think it's available here yet.

Rheem HPWH: MPs-325 Split Heat Pump - Rheem Australia Water Heaters

Here's another system, which seems to offer the efficiency of a typical heat pump but has a water HX in the inside unit instead of the typical air HX.
http://www.electromn.com/storage/NL202.pdf

I mainly wanted to share the Rheem HP, wonder why we don't have that here?

Adam

Great find...

We can make this stuff from discarded parts.

-AC_Hacker

I know, actually it's pretty close to what Xringer originally wanted to do with his spare Sanyo, just already packaged up. Not everyone's got the ambition to tackle it themselves.

Adam

You aren't gonna believe what I just bought off of Craigs List...

I just got an ASHP that heats water! It is a unit that is meant to be plumbed into a hot water heater. It is a 12,000 BTU unit that has no tank. You supply the tank. In the event that the ASHP can't supply the amount of heat (because the air temp is too low), it turns the function of making hot water over to resistance heat.


The guy I bought it from paid $1,400 for it new, and he tried to use it to do hydronic heating... only thing is he followed the 'normal' rules of thumb for a hydronic (wide PEX spacings, staple up, etc.) system that is going to use fossil fuel and can supply feed temperatures in the range of 160F. He did staple up, spreader plates, etc. Trouble is his heat pump can only supply water up to 125F. So his system never kept the house warm and comfortable.

So, long story short, the unit is a couple of years old, and I got it for $400.

And I have been insulating my house and researching floor configurations and testing computer models for feed temperatures in the range of 95F... This thing can happen!

-AC_Hacker

Nice Craigslist find. Years ago I had looked at buying one of those E-tech units, but got scared away at the price.

What a steal!! :)
 

Wow, the Holy Grail of ASHPs!! You lucky dog!!


They also made a little one..
http://cdn.greenoptions.com/d/d8/800...ted%281%29.jpg

Looks like a kid's toy, when compared!

So, does that monster have a pump on the hotwater side? Or will you need to add one?

Is that blue area the input filter? Will you be able to connect up duct work?

Yes, it does have a built-in pump.

I really only saw it 'in the flesh' for a minute, about a week or so ago, so I can't really say for sure.

These and a lot of other problems are yet to be worked out. I noticed that the current owner (I'll pick it up on Tuesday) has it vented to the outside... I'm guessing that he has the input & output both going outside.

I'd really like to put it in an enclosure, outside with freeze protection. I don't know if the compressor has a built in heater like the mini-split units do, so there may be problems with that approach. I've really gotten used to the kind of quiet that mini-splits give you.

The weather here is such that air conditioning isn't needed very much. I have a good bit of figuring out to do.

-AC_Hacker

Heating of the compressor looks like an add-on to me.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...Fall2010-1.jpg
The two white connectors at the bottom hook up to a heat-wire that wraps around the compressor's base.
There is a short coil spring mechanically connected to heat-wire end loops, to keep it tight.
The 18k BTUh version of this unit, (AC/HP) does not even use this heater.

My point is, you might be able to add a crankcase heater for cheap money.
That is, if you even needed a heater.

If you find a pdf manual online, please post the URL for us..
And of course you could post some pics with the top cover off..
If you could be so kind.. :)

Thanks,

Here is some info:
On-line record of the attempt he (Tom) made to get radiant heating out of the unit.
product data sheet
installation instructions

I talked to Tom some more about his attempt, turns out that he tried to do radiant ceiling, heat spreader plates and about 6" of cellulose above.

PEX was about 8" centers.

-AC_Hacker

WOW thats a great find, more might be coming up, discontinued in 2010, r22 based unit
Major envy

AC, verrrry jealous of that one. It looks like exactly what I want! It seems that heat pumps are much more common in your area than mine. Searching Craigslist near me I got nothin far as heat pumps go.

Adam

Search for Air Conditioners (try the Free section too)... that's what Acuario did... he used air conditioners.

-AC_Hacker

https://sites.google.com/site/altern...iping-issues-1
Was interesting.. The install manual accidentally created an On-Demand rig..
"The problem with the above installation is when your heat pump
is running and you take a shower, the heat pump tries to act as an
on-demand device and a heat pump capacity issue arises"


But, using the T&P fitting to tap in, looks like a very easy fix.. :)


~~~
Is the pic on this page: https://sites.google.com/site/altern.../Home/pictures
the R106H with the top off?? The parts list under the pic, makes be think I'm looking at a DIY project.. :confused:

In any event, the guts look very interesting!

Tom is a mechanical engineer, and in addition to that, he had taken an HVAC course at a local community college. So I think he was publishing this info as a way to keep it all straight, and also to share what he was learning with other folks.

But regarding your comment about this looking like a DIY project, it looks pretty sanitary inside, but then this stuff really isn't rocket science.

-AC_Hacker

The layout inside the box (in the pic) looks great.
But I didn't know if I was looking that the guts of his R106H or not.?.
That parts list had prices from Ebay..?. (Where I get a lot of my DIY parts)..:confused:

Anyways, I hope you are going to post a bunch of pictures of your new H2O Heater!
I'll keep an eye open for your new project thread.
We'll all be waiting for your evaluation of the R106H hardware and your
opinion about the difficulty of a DIY build of a similar unit..

I'm pretty sure it is the unit that was in his possession (and now mine).

I think he was trying to intimate that this could be a DIY.

OK, sure thing. Is there something in particular you want to know?

Sure thing. It is now the rainy season in Portland (my fair city) and it will be a while until I get serious about an install. I bought this wonder-machine because I knew I would kick myself if I let it get away... you just don't see this kind of unit coming up for sale that often... and it's already completely built... just connect the plumbing and plug it in!

-AC_Hacker

"Is there something in particular you want to know?"..
Yeah.. The top view of the refer-to-water HX doesn't give much away about it's size.
A side view with a ruler in the pic would be nice. :)
That HX looks a bit like those two in the pics you posted the other day..
What do they call that a looped coil coaxial?

Self-Kicking fer sure!! That is one neat looking unit, like new! And the price you got was the whip cream on top..
Plus, it looks like he's already done some debugging mods.

~~~
I've been doing some self-kicking. A guy up the road was dumping a like-new central type AC ODU.
When I saw it, I stopped took a quick peek at the plate. Trane R410A @ 3 tons.
The owner told me it worked fine. They were buying a larger unit.
It was free! and it was gone when I got back from my medical appointment an hour later.. :(

Should have canceled the appointment...

-AC

X her is a company which manufactures coaxial exchangers.Coaxial Heat Exchangers (1/3 to 20 Hp) on Doucette Industries, Inc.
I found a tube in tube they make FW2, list 780$, rated for a 2 hp unit just the other day for 100$.
Looking for a R22 heat pump now, madmodification to R-290, hope to make a Reverse Cycle Chiller like Reverse Cycle Chiller
Have been trying to find pictures of the inner guts of one of these things for a while, and still looking while I compile components. I think this FW2 is a great start thou.
Cheers all

I didn't recall how those RCC things worked.. But, I read this:
Heat Pumps For Cold Climates: Reverse Cycle Chillers | Heat Pumps - Detmer & Sons Home Comfort Blog

Which seems to say you just need to a larger ASHP that heats up a big water tank,
and then use the tank water to heat your home..

It seems like it's that large thermal mass of H2O that allows you to keep heating
when the temperatures get down under zero outside..
It's kinda like a GSHP, but without the ground.. :p

Sounds pretty good, but what if it's really cold, for a really long time??

You are still going to need backup.. And, if you need backup anyways, why not just use a modern mini-split??

Heck with all this global warming & the Jet Stream staying up north,
the New England area is saving a bundle on heating this winter..

kbonk,

Reverse Cycle Chiller is pretty much the same thing as heat pump. The only thing that is reverse is that you are exploiting the heat rather than the cold.

Acuario (search on EcoRenovator) did some great stuff with salvaged air conditioners, turning them first into swimming pool heaters, and then into house heaters. He made his own heat exchangers, too. He has photos and explanations of the whole nine yards. You might be able to build your own heat exchanger and save your $100 for HVAC tools.

You will also find loads of information on the Homemade Heat Pump Manifesto thread (also search on EcoRenovator). Just do some careful searching using the search button at the top of the page... Everything you want to know is there.

Good luck on your project, please take photos, we all want to see what you're doing.

-AC_Hacker

This HPWH looks Hackable

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54vlY26dasU