Diesel Heater for Back-up heat during long grid failures?
 

I've been watching a bunch of YouTube videos about RV, Truck and Car heaters
https://www.amazon.com/Wayska-Muffle...dp/B08LDV7L1B/
Video: https://youtu.be/BRLgBq8njuY
If it was really an 8KWh, that's 27,297 BTUh
My question is to those people who have also been studying these heaters.
I think this kind of heater might be useful for emergency home heating,
in the event of a prolonged grid failure.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...HSTARMOT35.jpg
My oil burner uses a lot of electrical power, too much. I have enough back-power to burn oil for about a week, if it's not too cold. (Back-up is a 6 Kwh battery & a gasoline generator). If it was really cold, I would be out of power within a few days.

The 'Chinese Diesel Heater' only uses a small amount of fuel and 12VDC power. My large 12V LA battery bank could run the heater for at least a week, and the 12Vdc battery bank is fed by a 200W PV. (in case of sunny days).
(Main 48 volt 144 AH pack is wired to sump pumps and other critical stuff)

My crazy idea is to feed the Diesel exhaust into the burner's air-input vent. Which is located at the bottom right side of the HS Tarm wood-coal firebox.
Why? Because I suspect the diesel exhaust contains 30% to 50% of the Real heat output of the heater. (Am I wrong?)

If the exhaust contained 8,000 to 13,000 BTUh, it would be able to provide warm water for washing & some space heating using the baseboards in the house. (Hot water heat in free-flow mode uses no circulating pumps).
What we need to avoid at all costs, is deep cold inside the house, that freezes and bursts the baseboard heating pipes.

The normal hot air output of the Diesel heater would be ducted up to the living room, using a (new) floor vent. (I have CO & smoke detectors galore).

My question, is using this heater a bad idea?
Plus, I wonder if it can burn #2 heating oil?

I can also burn wood to get by, but wood is also a limited supply.
Now that I'm about to turn 76, I'm thinking of not using wood for heat, unless things get really grim.

Thanks,
Rich

Consider getting a small diesel generator and replacing the oil burner with the engine exhaust.

That looks like a monster!

My backup oil boiler is considerably smaller and uses 180W when running.

The only thing that consumes power should be the blower fan when the boiler is actually running. Normally that also runs the mechanical fuel pump so is the only consumer of power. A little bit for the electronic control system but this should be negligible.

It's worth checking out your circulating pump (or pumps) and what that is consuming, especially as it's possibly running 24/7. I recently realized that my pump was a big consumer (4.8kWh/day!) so I changed it for a more modern low energy pump (0.8kWh/day), that made a huge difference.

My hot water circulating pumps don't need to be running, to get heat.
When I set the system for free-flow, there is enough natural circulation to heat the baseboards, so they won't freeze up.
The heat comes up very slow, but it also doesn't cool down the boiler(76 gallons) as fast.

It's the large AC motor on the burner that uses too much power. It runs the oil pump and blower. The nozzle uses 1 gal per hour. That little Chinese heater can make a gallon last a LOT longer than one hour.
My goal would be to use less electrical power to keep the warm water flowing in the baseboards using the exhaust.
The main heater hot-air output would provide some space heating. It should be enough to keep us warm.
This back-up heating mode would not used, until there was an emergency.
A long grid failure, rolling blackouts or when #2 oil prices hits $8 a gallon.
All of these things seem likely to happen before 2024.

Xringer

Boy that Tarm takes me back!!! Growing up my dad installed one of those dual fuel boilers as heating oil was expensive but that was about all that was available to us. Dad with us 3 boys would spend about 1 to 2 weeks cutting and splitting wood for the combination furnace to heat our home. Fond memories LOL chainsaws that wouldn't start, all the sharpening "by hand" ,truck loaded with wood breaking through the frozen ground!!! stuck in the middle of the bush in the dark. Man good times!!!

As you are very aware the Tarm is rocking some Mesozoic tech. It was new tech after coal.!!
All kidding aside it kept you and your family warm for years!!! They don't make things like that anymore. Todays furnaces become almost obsolete after 10 yrs.

Your query on the Chinese diesel heaters does have merit however its longevity and noise would cause me pause.

My friend and I had a conversation on his failing boiler and he changed it out to a tankless water heater with fantastic results. These units hang on the wall and are nearly silent. This with a small circle. pump was his primary heat source for years afterward.

For you to change to one of these however in propane maybe. There are a plethora made now from about $150 and up.(although I would maybe choose a more of a name brand) The neat thing is they are very efficient and operate on batteries so completely autonomous. One of these with a efficient circulation pump you can heat the whole house completely for a month on your LA battery set up. Depending on how prepper you want to go will depend on your propane storage. A system only for back-up a couple BBQ tanks. For a dual fuel system to pair with your heat-pumps maybe a 200lb tank serviced by a supplier.

to sum up:

A quiet safe system to heat the whole home
Capable to operate on a tiny fraction of electrical energy off grid.
Extremely budget friendly for equipment costs.
DIY install approved for mature eco-renovators

Randen

I see two problems.
1: the exhaust will foul up your burner and whatever else is in the inlet housing. if it's like the riello burners there's other things in there that won't be happy.
2: I don't think you'll have enough heat for a decent draft. CO detectors wait far too long to go off to avoid false alarms. they go off when you NEED TO LEAVE, not at the first sign of stupid.


#2 and diesel are very similar weights, I don't anticipate a problem for the burner.


why not try some kind of DIY co-gen setup? the smallest water cooled diesel/gas genny you can find, and put an HX in the water loop for you to steal heat from.

assuming you use the heat and power, you're now up to 60%+ efficiency, even if you use none of the exhaust heat.

The diesel heater works!
 

Installed it temporally, since it's only to be used during long power failures.
On Low Heat, it heats up my workshop pretty well.
On medium high heat it's heats the shop faster. No CO detected. No smell.
So far I like it. Maybe I can rig one of these up for the fire-place! ;)

https://ecorenovator.org/forum/attac...0&d=1638838433

https://ecorenovator.org/forum/attac...1&d=1638838433

A diesel fireplace? That would be cool.
Oh run it on high for at least 10 minutes before you turn it off.

I do that, just to make sure it's working good at high output.

Once you hit the OFF button, it cranks up a glow-plug heat cycle to clean-up.
Once the high current (9 amps) stops, it runs the fan for cool down. Then it goes off.
I never shut off the power supply! I saw 12v power-fail tested on YT & it smoked. But still worked later.

Got a new 12V battery for the heater. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09LHH78DP
Only saw one review! https://youtu.be/x5fQoYkZHEA
Seems to work okay so far.

That's a lot of $$$ for a 12V battery, but I wanted something light and portable.
Just in case.?.

How many watthours remain? :)
 

I wonder if I should stick a tiny volt meter on top of that battery, or buy one of those fancy Battery Monitor Meters from Amazon?
Maybe instead of looking at voltage and guessing, read the actual Ah used?
Like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013PKYILS/
Or this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FN3VXH4/
Anyone used one of these before?

I've inserted a 70A breaker in the + side, so the battery can be cut completely off from the load of the meter and the heater's controller standby current draw.

I have looked them quite a bit for use other than in an Rv. If it really puts out that kind of heat I would like to use it for a heat source for my shop. Fuel wise it would be far cheaper than propane. 8KW of heat would maintain temp on most winter days but would take a while to do the initial warm up.

If it worked as well as they claim and I were to get one I would probably run it off JetA as I can get waste fuel from airport maintenance facilities. They have to pay to dispose of it and are more than happy if someone will take some of it off their hands.

They do put out a lot of heat. I've seen a few people using these cheap diesel heaters for their shops, on YouTube.
I think one guy had a two car garage, that was not insulated! Must have been down south! He got the garage very warm!
Anyways, you might be able to find more information about the real BTUs on one of the facebook groups or even on YouTube.
If your shop isn't too large and has some insulation, you might be in luck!

I was expecting to get more heat into my HS Tarm boiler on my 1st test.
But the normal 1 deg loss per-hour wasn't slowed down much.
The big wood-coal fire-box was dirty with residue hanging on it's walls.
So, I cleaned most of that up and got a ash out of the clean-out pan area.

I want to run another boiler-heating test when the hotwater temp is abt 100F.
And run the heater at full speed, to see what level of heat can be scavenged from the exhaust pipe output.

I know the reasons for the 1 deg-loss-per-hour, and there isn't much that can be done about them. (One reason is excessive handwashing)! :eek:

Well it's insulated however it's a metal building so all the insulation where the frame is has been compressed when the skin is screwed on so the frame causes allot of heat loss and in the summer they are 40' long 130* radiators. It's far harder to cool the shop than it is to heat it.
When I use a propane heater that is a 30-40-50Kbtu I usually get it warmed up on the 50K real fast then let the 30 run a bit and turn it off then just turn it on as needed. Course the temps vary so much here that BTU needed is all over the place.
We are going to be around 90* on saturday... Temps are all over the place here. Maybe we can go down to the Caribbean for Christmas where it's cooler than here in the US...

Oh and FYI the cheapest Kerosene here is $8 a gallon which is $1 over what it usually is. Far cheaper to buy jet fuel at the airport for those running kerosene. Propane has remained pretty much unchanged despite the media trying to raise the price.

Do your fuel calculations by the pound. The BTUh per pound is very close across the range of all fuels, it is just another way to arrange the carbon molecules after all.
That is the primary reason diesel yields better MPG, it is 16% heavier per gallon just to start with.
Propane is really light at 4.24 pounds per gallon.

The cost of Diesel fuel at Texas gas stations $2.86 to 3.45 a gallon. So that's what to use in your Diesel heater! http://www.bostongasprices.com/GasPriceSearch.aspx

Sounds like a big building. If it's got a real high ceiling, heating with a Chinese heater might be slow. My basement shop is small (22x15?) with a low ceiling of uninsulated main level flooring. The basement floor is a cool slab at ground water temps (I try to stand on insulation foam floor mats). The air warms up pretty fast. Even when the tops of Concrete Walls are around 35F. The windows are leaky too! It would be a lot of trouble to insulate this shop. Not gonna happen.

There are two basic sizes available - 2kW and 5kW. The capacity claims are inconsistent, and often incorrect. Those that are advertised as 8kW are really 5kW heaters. Some that are claimed to be 2kW are really 5kW heaters. The actual 2kW heaters are physically smaller than the 5kW heaters. Look at the dimensions to know which one it really is.

They work fairly well. Your battery is used for two purposes - initial lighting, which uses a LOT of current, and ongoing running of the fan and pulsing fuel pump, which does not take much current.

Many friends are using them to heat fish houses, and they work very well for the purpose. They are not thermostatically controlled. You adjust the pulse rate of the fuel pump. They have a minimum heat output to stay running, maybe 20%.

It is nice that one can easily keep a quantity of fuel in a small can. However, now with most diesel containing a bio component, it does not store well - it grows a black algae in the fuel.

There are some models available that are all assembled in a case, ready to go. Heater, fuel tank, fuel pump, etc. Others come in pieces for you to assemble.

All in all, this is a pretty compact and inexpensive way to have a small amount of backup heat.

Mine is the "8KW" type, which was about the same price as other sizes in the same all-in-one box configuration.
There is a Facebook group "Diesel Keep You Warm..." that has some manual pdfs.

I'm pretty sure the controller on my heater allows it to be thermostatically controlled. (in C, no F).
I 'think' there is a heat sensor (thermistor) in the panel.
Mine is set up to use the fuel pump rate, because it allows me to control fuel use.

I've been thinking of buying another one of these for the kids.
They have a real nice house, but no fireplace! Zero heat backup.
(I don't think they have any sleeping bags)!
A diesel heater might keep their house from freezing up and it's a lot cheaper than a Power-Wall.

External heat sources like monobloc ashp, or pipes that might freeze up, could be protected from frost damage with an anti freeze valve. Its just a valve at the lowest point in the plumbing, that opens a bit when the temperature falls below 3C or so, to prevent freeze damage. Once it’s opened, slightly warmer water is present, and it will close again for a while. Link to one below.

https://www.seconrenewables.com/heat...lve-7537-p.asp

Those valves would work in many systems and don't require any operator input.
I like the idea, but if they are installed at the 'lowest point', that means in the basement, near the uninsulated slab.
Where the winter slab temperature is 40 to 50 degrees F. Thanks to the Geothermal effect of the ground water table etc.
So, the valves would never get cold enough to open. The water pipes to the bathroom, kitchen and the forced hot water loop (upstairs) in the bedrooms would freeze up and split open.
The only pipes I'm worried about freezing are the pipes that are at least 5 feet above the basement floor.

I once used a small ASHP hot-water heater in the basement. It made a LOT of very cold air, while making our hot water. I was afraid it would make the basement very cold during the winter.
But, it was never able to lower the room temperature enough to notice.
Geothermal heat from the floor is very stable.
In the summer that ASHP kept the basement air less humid. I was sorry to see that system go..

Nyle is releasing the E8 this year, based on what I've heard. I'm hoping to hold out on a new waterheater until I see pricing for that. it's got 2x the capacity of all the integrated units.

The link I saw was: https://www.nyle.com/water-heating-systems/units/e8/

It looks like a good unit. Much better than the ASHP I was using.
I wonder what these will cost?

The sanden CO2 unit is $3500 + tank. I'm hoping it's at a viable price point.