Pinball,

Same thing here yesterday, I made $0.21, looking at TED. Today looks like it's going to be worse.

No install date on my new 2.5k system. It will be installed next year, not this year.

Put beam lift up on You Tube.

Got a question for you guys with the Enphase inverters. I see a couple of different monitoring software systems.

Is this a fee for service or something else?

Lastly, I am wondering how accurate PV watts has been for your setup. I am very strongly thinking of a ~10 kW system, but PV watts is discouraging. Have a large barn with a 3/12 roof, within 20 degrees of solar south and with no shading.

Thanks in advance!

Steve

They let you feed your data to PVpvoutput
Flynns Arcade 12.560kW

I installed in April and I am 111% of PVwatts estimate.
DC to AC Derate Factor 0.86 since microinvertors are so efficient.
If you are doing a self-install you will get module level visibility but if you hire an installer make sure you have in writing you will get module level visibility. New systems that are installed by an installer have a dumbed down monitoring but the installer can request you get the good module level monitoring.

Here is a screen shot of Enlighten manager. It is really good software.
The percent est on the right side are to PVwatts est.

Here is the month to date graph I like this one
the bottom have PVWatts est.

steve,

Good question.


The Power company installed 2 meters at my home, on turn-up day, Feb. 9, 2010. I installed Sun Power panels and there free monitoring system. I divided Sun Powers one year kWh total into meter monitoring the solar output. I got the number 99.7, After that I started to believe Sun Power's numbers, have a display on my home office desk. I'm also running TED, which monitors daily electric cost.

I've ask for the new Sun Power 2.5k (2.45k) system to be added to the existing free Sun Power monitoring system. There's advantages for having individual inverters for each panel, but also with 50 inverters, there's more things that can go wrong. :eek:

Pinball,

Great that you are using a performance factor of 86% as I figured in 77% (from PVWatts)in my estimates. How do you verify the 86%?

Thanks for the info on individual panel monitoring. Lastly, the idea of getting one extra inverter is a superb suggestion . . . .

I can easily put in a surplus analog (old style) watt hour meter for about $50 (for PV production only), but the ability to use the free Enphase monitoring software makes this unnecessary.

Already have a smart meter set up for net metering and my local electrical coop is good for system. All I need is a licensed electrician to do the final hook up to panel and to verify that he/she did that.

Local coop will allow me to "bank" extra kWhrs for 30 days. If they are not used by that time, then I donate them to the grid. So I am sizing system so to loose as little as possible to "banked leakage" (if there is such a term).

Is $1.75 still a realistic figure for price per watt self installed (panels, inverters, roof rack, wiring, etc.)?

GREAT job - both of you!

Steve

Wow we get to carryover for a year and get zeroed out on June 1. I am trying to get that date changed because it is after the two best solar months.

For the performance factor. Enphase recommended something close to it and I looked what others were saying to use that had Enphase for a few years.

I have a TED 5000 the solar version also it is great and worth it. I know at a glance what the power bill will be at all times.


These guys have some pretty good close outs. Get on their mailing list
www.renvu.com
here is a example the last email
We have the SolarWorld 245W Poly silver frame and we are offering it for $0.77/w when ordering 4 full pallets or more. If you need less than that we will offer it for $0.79/w for a full pallet.


I have ordered from these guys a couple times.
http://www.gogreensolar.com/collections/solar-panels
http://www.gogreensolar.com/products...o-inverter-mc4


Mark

Pinball and Vern,

I take it the newer Enphase 250 is better than the older 215 model. It appears that the 250 model offers free monitoring and no ground electrode conductor (GEC) must save $ as well.

However, without the GEC, is it more susceptible to lightening?

Steve

The only way I would use the new M250 was if I was very limited on space. It will be cheaper to go with the M215 the M215 will really tops out at 225 watts so they mate very well with 250 watt panels.
The M250 really does top out @250 watts.
They both use the same trunk cable. You still have to ground the racks/panel frames .

I had sales people telling me the M215 topped out at 215 watts when I was buying them this is just not true at all.

Look at the image at the bottom on this page.
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/solar-...r-array-2.html

Pinball,

You spoke of your 111% actual PV output compared to what PVWatts predicted. Was this using the performance factor of 86% vs. the default of 77%?

Secondly, what diameter (gauge) wire did you bring down from the Enphase output to your electrical panel? The smaller the wire, the greater the resistance loss, but fatter wire is more expensive. Do you have a suggestion on that trade off?

Wire is one of those things that you put in once . . . . so your thoughts on the balance of efficiency vs. cost are highly appreciated.

Vern (and others), feel free to chime in.

Steve

Stevehull,

I asked for 12 gauge to the combiner box, then 6 gauge to 200 amp panel. There's a 60 amp breaker, that will be changed to 70 or 80 amp breaker, when new system goes in. No wire changing with new system.

What are you guy's talking about on emphase efficiency percentages? If I understand what your talking about SMA is in the high 90s.



Video for inverter.

Personally, my wire run between the trunk cable and the combiner panel is #10 UF 3 conductor + gnd. I went with 10AWG to decrease my resistance/ft, because UF didn't need to be in conduit through the attic, walls, etc. and because it was readily obtainable in a coil, relatively inexpensively (actually cheaper than 12-3 UF at the orange box store for 100ft).

I have 20 panels on the roof. As a result, I have two trunk cables with 10 panels each. I transition from the two Enphase trunk cables to two 4 conductor TCER cables with sunlight + oil resistant jackets on the roof in a Hubbel-Weigmann 8x6x4 fiberglass panel. The two circuits of TCER go down through a weather head to a 6x6x4 Carlon box in the second floor attic where I transition to the twin runs of 10-3 UF. Those twin runs combine in a Square-D QO 100A panel and run via 6 gauge THWN to a 30A breaker in my service entrance panel where I ultimately feed the house or the net meter to the grid, or both.

I figured with 10AWG running from the second floor attic to the combiner panel, even if I some day in the future upgrade my panels to new more efficient designs with 2x the power output, I'll still have adequate wire for the task without serious resistance losses. :thumbup:

Just looking at my Enlighten page, I'm running 109% of PV Watts estimated on my lifetime (since August 1, 2013) using a 0.96 DC to AC derate factor.

It is the “DC to AC Derate Factor” for PVwatt.
Below is how the come up with the number.
NREL: PVWatts - How to Change Parameters



I think the wire size is unique to each install requirements. My array was about 120 feet from my house.
We had existing #2 aluminum running out to the barn and I wanted to keep it. From the sub panel out to the array I ran number 8 copper. Then that goes to number 2 aluminum to the disconnect switch then number 6 copper to the main load center. I had to upgrade my load center to a 225 amp service but I still use a 200 amp main breaker in it.


I also center feed the M215 microinverter. The most M125' s before a Jbox is 5. When you are some distance for your house you really need to watch out for the voltage rise. (you need to keep voltage drop less than 2%)
If you are longer distance from your array you will need to get very familiar with this document


you don’t what to put it all in to find out it will not keep running as soon as you get some good sun.

pinballlooking,

First thing, my wife drove a Volt and I liked it, even better then the Prius. There I said it. I can see the advantage of owning one. It seems like a bad deal to jump ship, when I own the Prius out right. Maybe some day.

My plate form, 9' tall 30' x 40', is 50' from 200 amp panel. Now the plate form is 50' long. For some reason I had to down grade my 200 amp panel to 190 amps. Two 4' x 8' plywood panels are moved in drawing, so two short flights of stairs can be seen. Pushing open trap doors allows access to walkways.
http://www.enichesoftware.com/media/solarfarm.jpg

Very cool she tried the Volt.

“92 percent of Chevy Volt owners would buy another this year than at the same time last year, according to Consumer Reports” this says a lot.


There is something to be said for paid off and the Prius still does very well on gas.
We just hit 13,302 EV solar powered miles. It is very cool to drive on solar power.

For enphase systems
http://enphase.com/global/files/Enph...lculations.pdf

Enphase docs
http://enphase.com/global/resources/geo_us/

pinballlooking,

I did it. :thumbup:

The solar install wont be until early 2014. I need an income tax break for 2013, so used solar money on a new Volt.

First plug-in ever. Got a green light then a beep, it's still showing green... See pic 1.

Base model with blue tooth. rear colision sensers and camera.

No more Prius.

Congrats! On the new Volt.
They come so loaded you really don’t need many options.
If you get the 240Volt charger 4 hour charge is so nice and it uses a little less power to charge it.
I would look at this charger Creek LCP-25P.
The Volt L2 Charger; IMHO - Hands Down Clipper Creek LCP-25P
I have the cheap voltec

It is not make very well and they cut your warranty to one year if you self-install. They have already had to replace my cord.
The power max looks nice but I have not seen reviews on it yet.


Did you get a 2013 or a 2014?

pinballlooking,

2014. Wife drives 10k miles a year. All of her driving is done when she at work 5 miles to the job, lunch and shopping, post office, bank. Once home, that's it. So right now the 110v charger will work.

Two welder outlets in shop next to where Volt parks. Can change 50 amp outlet to 30 amp easy, plug and play. Today I'm going to find what outlet the Volt is plugged into and move hot water heater monitoring over to the Volt outlet. I'll get good numbers with TED.

Wife drove Volt twice at the dealer. When we bought it, it had 11 miles. The dealer put it on a 220 charge while we filled out paper work, not a full charge, I don't believe. Last night, left it on 8 amps charge. This morning, it had 38 miles on the odometer available for electric driving. Thought it should show 40.

Vern

That is just an estimate based on you previous driving. If you are going to use 120 volt charging make sure when you shut the car off to switch it to 12 amp charging. As long as your outlet can handle it.
You have to do this every time it does not store this setting.

If I you charge the Volt with 8 amps, a depleted battery will take in excess of 19 hours to charge when it will only take 10 to 12 hours on 12AMPs.



With 240 volt charging you don’t have to do this.
The 240 volt charging charger about 10 miles and hour really just a little better.
16 amp is all the volt needs or will use. The charger is actually in the car so going with a 30 amp charger will just help future proof you not charge the car faster.

Using the heater in the car will suck the miles right up. The AC does not affect the miles that bad.

If you want to maximize miles use cruise control and set it early bump the speed with the + paddle.

But if you know you are just going to travel say 20 miles use sport mode and have fun.

Thanks pinballlooking,

Can't bad mouth the Volt anymore.:( But still think it will make a great in-town electric car for us. :thumbup:

Found, not getting a full charge is common, a lot of factors there. I got up at 2AM, it was around 50 degrees with a flashing green light was on. Wife drove off at 6AM 4 hours later with a 38 mile charge for the first drive to work.

My solar company 'Sun Valley Solar' is installing a 1.7 meg watt system, maybe that's slowing them down on the installs this year, it's only around 5,000 sun power 345 watt panels. I'm hopping I can generate enough watts for the Volt with the 9.2k system.

pinballlooking, my thought is, if you can generate 95 percent of your electric needs, your getting the best out of your system. Over generating your loosing money.

You should always get a full charge. It will just vary on how many miles you get on that charge.
In the summer we have traveled 50 miles on a charge.

Today it was 30 deg out my wife precondition the Volt she got 38 miles and went 1 mile on gas.
This afternoon she will get probably 40 EV miles. But we still have 13,505 EV miles solar powered so far this year. This has saved about 631 gallons of gas so far this year.

I agree 95% is very good. I would like 95-100% counting charging my Volt 2 – 3 times a day.
It is funny we add some stuff that is all elect like my Mini splits. Then we add some energy sipping items.


I am slowing dialing in our usage pattern but I really will not know until this summer. That is where the MS will be cooling and my upgraded solar will be working I should be able to carry more solar to the winter to cover the MS heating.

pinballlooking,

Was told Prius drivers usually get great millage with a volt. Prius drivers understand hyper-miling and have been doing it for years, before buying a Volt. We've had two Prius's for last 6 years. Hybrid's are not new for my wife.

I really think she going to love the car. Thank's for putting up with my ribbing about you owning a Volt. Kind of funny, now I can eat my words. :eek:

I could see where Prius drivers would do very well switching over to a Volt. My wife never paid attention to MPG before but she is now doing great with the Volt. It is fun to try to use only solar power when driving.
This video shows the select knob @ 1.24 change it to the attached screen.

It really helps to keep you informed.

Look at the center of the dash it is the most informative mode. The dealer usually does not show people this mode.
The other setting we liked is you can set it to auto lock the car when you walk away from it very convent. You can set it to sond horn when it locks.
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread....just-walk-away!


I little ribbing is ok and it is great to see another solar power car. I bet she will like it as much as we do.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...e_dsc00559-jpg

I could get use to these electric bills. $8.29 just the meter charge.
We use some of our extra power with the new Mini Splits it has been a very cold Nov.
My natural gas bill does not finished until end of this week but it is trending much lower.

9K so far today, solar production. Light rain and over cast now. :(

Looks like the charging is is working it's self now. Third day charging and it's was up to 41 miles of charge this morning. :thumbup: It's just like the Prius Plug-in. The charge miles are dependent on the driver, it's how you drive it. Miles charged can go up or down.

Getting the Volt was the cart before the horse. But it works out better on taxes. :eek:

Found tax credit on the charge station, 30% off. I'm liking the GE one, here. During the week is fine, it's the weekend when more miles are driven and level 2 charging is needed. Just like the link says, buying next year will be just fine. The form for tax on 2014 Volt is not out yet, figure that. :eek:

L2 charging is a must to really enjoy the car in my opinion

Clippercreek charging
I would get this one hands down. 3 year warranty great price and very good reviews from Volt owners.

Today’s solar was really bad 8.12 KWH rain fog

Saving money for my wife is putting potatoes in the cellar.

The NEMA has a good price, best I've seen. Thanks for the links. My wife says no to L2. Listen I had to force her to the Volt dealer, last Sunday when we bought it. Really I like the hard wired NEMA. No 50 amp plug to buy and rewire, got an old welding outlet close to the Volt-age, 10 gauge all the way to 200 amp panel, okay 85' away. I wired every inch of my home. Didn't know better, the smallest wire is 12 gauge.

With 30% off for taxes the cost would be $359.80. You use less power when you charge with 240.
@ this price you only have to save 103 gallons of gas to pay for the L2 charger. If you plan on keeping the car for at least a couple years it will easily pay for its self. You will be charging with solar so even better.

To precondition the car you need 240 volts or it does not really give payback. All things to consider but there lots of people charging with 120.

You should join
Volt Stats! Tracking real world usage of Chevy Volts in the wild...
Here is my Volt.
Volt Stats: Details for Volt #2013-02615 (Flynn's Arcade)

Here is a great Volt commercial

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye21W..._embedded#t=61

Wow December has been so cloudy we have made @132 KWH so far that is really bad. We should be @289 KWH so far I hope the sum comes back soon. Yesterday we used 68 KWH but is was laundry day.

12/11 57.4 KWH today that is better.

How does she like her solar powered Volt so far?

We will hit 14,000 EV miles and we have saved 652 gallons of gas.

I posted this info in my Mini split post but I should have posted it here because it really shows how solar power and an EV car can really help give you a quicker return on investment.
We are on track for a 2 ½ year pay back for our solar project that is not even counting natural gas savings. I never thought it would be possible to have that kind of payback. If our power company had any kind of rebate it would be even a faster payback.

Replacing my buying gasoline with good clean solar really speeds up the payback.

This is all for Nov.
Last year’s natural gas bill was $93.77
Last year’s Electric was $105.36
Last year’s car gas bill was $251.28 (now all solar powered Chevy Volt this year.)
Last year Total utilities with car gas was $438.82


This year Electric bill $8.29 just the meter charge we carried forward a $20 credit
This year’s natural gas bill was $35.93 (hot water and heat)
This year's total utilities/Car gas with solar power, Mini Splits and EV car was $44.22

Saving $394.60 that is compared to last year. It was really more since it was so cold this year but this is close.


We are not totally at NetZero but getting closer.

It is really exciting to start to see the savings from all my projects this year. I think my wife thinks I have going off the deep end on savings but I still have more projects planned. :)

A borrowed card but a good solar card.

This is all for December.
Last year’s natural gas bill was $138.73
Last year’s Electric was $133.93
Last year’s car gas bill was $250.00 (now all solar powered Chevy Volt this year.)
Last year Total utilities with car gas was $522.66

This year Electric bill $64.67
This year’s natural gas bill was $48.42 (hot water and heat)
This year's total utilities/Car gas with solar power, Mini Splits and EV car was
$113.09

Saving $409.57 that is compared to last year.

Wow, thats quite the savings. Nice job!

Thanks. We are very happy just the last two months we have saved $803.69 the will help get a good ROI while having a very positive impact on the environment.

Having all the projects DIY makes it possible to get a quicker payback.:)

Solar production the last few days have been.
61.8 KWH, 52.2 KWH, 64.2 KWH, 60.9 KWH today we are at 61.7 KWH not bad for Jan
We have made 808 KWH so far this month so it has not all been sunny. I am glad to put a few good sunny days together.

PB,
This has been my worst month since I put in my systems! We don't get much sun here in the winter and this winter has been abysmal. I doubt we've had 6 or 8 sunny days in the last two months!
I was talking to my friend in NC and he saidthey get 267 days of sun a year.... I'm thinking of moving..... Not to OK though!
Rob

Hi pinball,

Been writing a lot of code lately. I'm working on an internet database, can't find one to buy. Then working compost these winter months, can't believe the leaves from the neighbors arriving. Also working a dead temp gauge on the tractor, thermal coupler didn't fix it, just ordered a new gauge.

Volt still getting 47 miles on a charge. Like I said I don't drive it. Wife went to Scottsdale today, drove it back on gas. Last look there was 996 miles with 1.2 gallons of gas used. It's nice, it drives like a regular car. She had to up the charge to 12 amps, so it will be ready for work in the morning.

Ted monitoring volt charge, purple line is the Volt. Don't understand why the power kw: is 2.327, but it's charging on 12 amps. :confused:
http://www.enichesoftware.com/media/volt.jpg

@Robaroni bummer you are getting less sun. How much have you made this month? last month was our worst month so far 947 kwh.

@Vern
Hey good to hear from you. 47 miles on a charge is great! I am glad she likes it.
Mine takes little better than 3kwh when charging on 240Volts.
We just hit 15,763 EV miles 733 gallons of gas saved. Mid Feb will be one year.