So is this still in production? I thought they were shutting the production of the volts down for whatever various reasons.

Creeky

Now that you have some experience with the batteries with solar. What would your dream system be?? How many batteries, How much solar??

Randen

easy answer.

The next one. smile.

The only thing about this lithium system that isn't worked out is the charger. We get those two months nov/dec of heavy cloud here. The short days don't help. Yet January is fine. Maybe with global climate change we'll get sunny novembers thru Christmas. Who knows.

So last year I did go until Dec 10 (I left the farm traveling on the 10th, wasn't back until March) without charging, but there were some mighty frugal days with 5 day stretches of that dark cloud.

All that said.

This year I will reduce the amount of storage. 12kw is too much. My low was 43.5. From 48. Even that was an anomaly. Most of the time overnight lows were in the 46s. Occasionally 45s (dishwasher night). Just seems silly to have storage you don't use.

As this year I think I will stay at the farm until just after Christmas. I am adding a charger. I could add a simple 48v 1500w Iota or similar. But I've gotten a rather nice deal on a Schneider SW 4048. So I'm going to give it a go.

I am also going to reduce my battery to 9kw. For discretionary purposes I won't go into detail as why.

I will also add a battery heater. Rebuild the battery box.

But the best solar system is the one that is working. 2kws. A good solar controller. Morningstar in the house! A reliable inverter. And a lithium battery pack. All I need.

Now. If I were to add an electric truck say. Or electrify the ol' Massey 30. Or, and I'm considering this. Put an ashp in the studio.

Hmm. Maybe I should be hanging onto that extra 12kw after all.

Well. Up to Volt pack number 5.

And just bought my first Nissan Leaf pack. A 2015 with 11k km on it. Sheesh. Like brand new. Can't wait to open 'er up.

Creeky,

A novice here...

I have been around the web looking for info on the chevy volt battery and how it can be used for solar applications. and... I have seen you on several forums.

Please excuse my comment if this has already been explored. I am sure I have not found every thread on the topic yet. ;)

The last video I seen on youtube regarding the chevy volt battery packs had shown that a heater is used on the setup to keep the batteries from freezing and... runs off of pack voltage. If this is the case it may be possible that the freezing problem can be solved by simply utilizing the included pack heater and keeping fluid in the heating/cooling system in the battery itself?



The heater is discussed around the 4:30 mark in the video. I am not sure if I would be allowed to link the video. Easily found on youtube.
"How to find, buy, and use the Chevy Volt battery in a DIY EV"

Again I apologize if this has been discussed. Just thinking it could be possibly be a valuable piece of info.

This also a good time to thank you for all of the information that you have put out on the project.



-Ed

I'll have a look at that. Keep in mind I'm not doing an EV build. I'm using the modules for SESS (solar energy storage system)

A few folks have looked at the heater. It was designed to operate at very high voltage. So once you break down your pack its not that useful.

Those who have tried to keep the fluid based heating cooling have had very poor luck. Leaks abound.

Air based heating and cooling have no leaks. And have proved quite simple to use. Just do nothing. Smile. The original ESS built by Sandia in 2012 opted for air based heating and cooling. When you don't have the heavy demands of vehicle use you don't need the robust temp management.

Great link tho. Thx.

I wanted to mention it... Since you already have it in the purchase of the volt battery pack.

Yes I am aware of your system... I have been reading all of your information in an attempt to to put together one myself. ;)


Thanks,

-Ed

Just bought pack #6. Sigh. 2015.

Ed. Good luck with your build. Its time well spent. and a lot of fun.

Thanks, I have your site "bookmarked" and will support as I move forward when I can. I have directed a few folks to your site.

I am starting to find the parts necessary to build more robust Volt SESS packs. Starting with custom wiring harnesses to replace the Volt orange plug.

http://www.bobolinksolar.com/wp-cont...01-300x203.jpg

The advantage of the custom harness is that it ties all the cells together into 12 parallel strings. The breakout PCB allows "cell balancers" to be wired in. I will have more on this later. The cell monitors are sitting on my work table. Huzzah.

http://www.bobolinksolar.com/wp-cont...01-212x300.jpg

(If anyone needs the old style Volt plugs I have a bunch available now. Still useful. You can clip the output head off and rewire. Or use as is to plug a monitor into).

One small step for Volt SESS.

First pack to receive the harness.

http://www.bobolinksolar.com/wp-cont...01-300x169.png

Nice job creeky, great seeing all the progress and items you are bringing to the market.
I just about have the all the Volt modules sold that I was not going to use.
Currently waiting on my controller to come in. I am picking up some SolarWorld panels locally(Craigslist) tomorrow. I have not had any luck with regarding getting charging profiles changed on the economical inverter/chargers. So most likely going with the 48/1200 Victron Energy like you did for Lakeside Ontario's kit. Next jump up in the Victron Energy is a bit more costly and for what I am doing I don't need to go that big.

Did you make the monitor you mentioned of that you use with the old connectors with?

Have you made progress on a BMS?

I saved everything from the volt battery,harness,connections,BMS just in case some of the other items can be used. So far pretty good as I have waited and found the items I need at a good price.

Glad to hear things are progressing.

The harnesses may be of use. You can use the plugs with a 6 or 8S cell monitor. As seen previously here.

I don't like BMS solutions. I've yet to see one that is both cheap and quality. I like my new harnesses. They tie the cells together making the pack more robust in terms of cell management. I will be adding "active cell balancers" as some of my friends want them.

And I will have a "cell balancer tool" to rent. So if you're monitoring and you see a couple of cells out of whack you can rent a balancer and fix the problem.

For the price of the Victron solar controller VS the capability. There really is no other choice right now. These devices are both inexpensive and easy to use and high quality. There are lots of controllers of almost equal value. Almost. If I was still tight for SESS I would say go Morningstar. They use the lowest idle power.

You won't be disappointed that you spent a few dollars more on your inverter.

Best of luck.

Hi Creeky,

Thank you for taking the first step so others like me can follow. :) I am throwing around the idea of getting the Volt or Leaf battery to switch my AGM bank over to Lithium. However it seem it's a lot harder for me to come over a Leaf pack vs a Volt pack. The only issue with the Volt is that we are unable to split the cell to reconfig the pack voltage. Safely charged 12s only give 48-49volts and most standard inverter isn't happy at that voltage. For say my Conext XW+, it can function between 40-60volts. BUT to use the Hybrid function where it uses the grid support mode, you can only set the grid support voltage down to 47volts. Meaning it will stop inverting to support the load if battery voltage drop to 47volts. At 47volts, I think the battery is still at 70-80%?

Also, I am worry about the pack being parralles first, then series, than parallels again, like you mention. 3p12s6p? I have look at your picture, it's unclear of how you had it wired? Did you just wired the two main +,- of each 48volts module in series? But you did not interconnect each individual cells of the 12s together right? Even so your result show no significant amount of imbalance?

Later on you said you got those balance connector that allow you to interconnect all of the balance tab for each 48volts module parallels to each other, so each cells on each 48v battery can balance each other?

Is it like the picture I attached here?

thank you.

I am super pleased to announce the addition of the BMS. This is a simple "active balancing" unit wired here for 12S! Huzzah

http://www.bobolinksolar.com/wp-cont...WEB-300x82.jpg

JimmyAz. yes. The wiring basically goes as your diagram suggests.

It is a bit of a kludge. However, after over a year in operation it works beautifully. You will be very surprised and pleased with the increase in efficiency going to lithium. Watch your temperatures for long life tho.

I have seen no imbalance of note. The use of the harness increases the durability of the system by tying the cells together. As you note. The new BMS solution improves on this by adding active cell balancing. With the PCB everything is tied together. Its pretty cool. Especially if you look back to where I started.

Personally I prefer the Volt cells. The lifespan looks incredible so far. However the Leaf cells have some nice advantages: they don't need the harness. So you can save a bit of money there. But they also are easier to manage and you can do a more traditional 56v pack quite easily. In my climate they are also rated to charge down to -10C (Celsius). Compared to the Volt packs at 5C and 48v.

The Leaf cells are like hen's teeth tho. I have seen 1. Its in my yard. Pricey but couldn't resist.

http://www.bobolinksolar.com/wp-cont...02-229x300.jpg

I'm not familiar with the XW. Have you updated firmware etc?

I have only done SW installs with Schneider. I haven't had to configure "grid support." So I don't understand why you can't configure say grid support from 42v. Perhaps touch base with Schneider on this issue and report back?

Thank you so much for your fast reply.

I am surprised that even without each cells tied together, they still stay in balance very well. If the cells are tied together, I think it can do without BMS.

I have always thought the Volt and Leaf shared the same lithium chemistry? But you're saying they are different and the Volt supposed to have more life cycle?

It just hit me that the Volt is actually a Hybrid and not a fully electric car? I always thought it was all electric? If this is the case, is it safe to say that a 30k miles Volt battery have less cycle than the 30k miles Leaf? Because the Leaf run purely on battery and would use more cycle quicker than the Volt? All of the 2013-2015 Volt has a 18kw pack right?

As for the Conext XW vs SW, they both share the same setup when it come to the grid support mode. The inverter software simply WILL not let you set the grid support voltage below 47volts. Also I am pretty sure Schneider wouldn't even bother looking into making any changes, they are just not like those small company who actually listen to consumer. (long story how I know).

Could you please tell me how much of a voltage drop on your 13kw packs if you were to pull like 2000-3000watts? If the pack is at, let say 80-85% capacity, which is like 4.0v per cells and at what SOC would it be when it's at about 47volts? This will tell me if the 47volts cut off for grid support is possible.

I am sorry for so many questions, but you may be the only one who can answer all these question and I am sure it would be helpful for others who ran across this thread like I am. :D THANKS!

So I have been thinking.... Since I am using a Midnite Classic 150 charge controller and it can do 12-72volts battery.

What if I make it a 18s, 4volts per cells X 18 = 72max. This mean I can series the 48 and 24 module together. However, my inverter show it can only handle 60volts max. But I should be ok if I set my charge controller to never charge above 60volts. But then this would only allow me to charge each cells to 3.3volts :(

The other option is to connect the 48v module and 24v module, but only use up to 14s to make 51.8v nominal, that would be perfect.... and leave the other the left over cell un-use. But is it possible to add a terminal in between the tab?

Advise anyone?

see the Schneider grid support page

I don't really understand what you're trying to do. Are you selling to the grid? In this case the inverter is expecting you want your batteries fully charged first. Then it sells excess power to the grid.

I don't see the problem with 47v in that case.

And I think the Schneider XW supports up to 66v? No?

Not selling ever. Grid support = puling power from the grid to support load base on battery voltage. So let say i set it at 47volts. The inverter would only invert dc from battery yo aupport my loads if battery is above 47volts. The higher voltage mean it will invert more and more up to 90% of my load. What worrying about is that the battery would not have enough voltage room and it would drop below 47volts and it would not inverting even when battery is still full. If this happen it would pull all power from grid and not inverting.

What do you think of using the 2x 24v and tie it to the 48v to make it 15s? Placing the battery in ways that i could use half of that 24v module but without actually separated them cells.

Can you start your own thread on this. Thank you.

I am not an expert in this scenario. And I'm not sure I understand your question. I would contact Schneider. According to what I read in the manual the inverter will function normally. Good luck.

I don't recommend cutting up the Volt modules. Its way easier to use them configured as they are. But I know others have cut them up. Divide the bus bar between cells and away you go. It does destroy the built in BMS wiring. Which I find useful for attaching monitors and the new BMS solution.

Creeky

I sent you a PM and Email

Randen

Hi Creeky,

Do you sell the balance harness and parallels pcb? or know how I can buy some?

thanks

Jimmy, I have a solar business. bobolinksolar dot com
you can contact me there. thanks

btw. for all who are following. the units are proving slow but steady. which is what I had hoped for. The dual action: tying the cells together and then the slow steady balancing. Perfect.

I would like to take a moment to be thankful. For everyone's help here. And for all the support I got elsewhere. There are quite a few names, so I will leave it as "you know who you are."

This voyage has been longer and far more fun than I had expected. From those first moments in Northern Quebec to over a year of lithium powered goodness at the farm.

Peace and happiness.

Here's to action on the CO2 reduction agenda!

Question regarding purchasing a wrecked volt
 

I have just reviewed your information on using the Volt modules for solar power. Very good information and a lot of learning curve to get to this stage in your system build.
Question:
I have found a 2012 Volt that is wrecked. Systems are still operable. Owner is asking $2000 for entire car, is that a reasonable purchase price?

I don't need the motor/drive assembly so I would like to sell them separately if I purchase the vehicle.

Chris E.

Seems reasonable. But I have no idea as to price. I would like to get my hands on the motor and drivetrain. And imagine so would a lot of folk. Sadly I don't have the time for that right now. But you should have good luck selling off the bits.

Post a thread on your adventure. Looks like good fun.

Voila. Here is the first of the complete "RedWing" bms boards rolling off the line. This is for the Volt lineup. 12S with the PCB allowing up to 12 modules to be tied together.

(I call them "RedWings" because the redwing blackbirds are the defenders of my local fields and creek. They'll attack any predator, whether its threatening their nest or even another species. Its a sight to behold when they gather the posse, often 5 species of male birds, to do a grounds sweep.)

I would like to send a shout out to Alan, who provided the back boards/decals (for free); Brad, who assembled the boards (awesome job my friend); David, (aka, the brains) and Creeky (ahem) who did the artwork and who drove the project.

You are all champions of the right to better solar circa 2017! I applaud you!

http://www.bobolinksolar.com/wp-cont...MS-768x234.jpg

Just an update on the balancers. They are working perfectly. I was actually able to find and rescue a way out of balance module. Took a week to come into balance but has been sitting there working perfectly for a week now. Huzzah.

I can custom build these things in any size. 6S to the moon. 13S, whatever.

Just a word to newbies. Okay. I started out thinking I didn't need a BMS. And its true. For a year or two you can do without the bms. But the really out of whack module showed me that for long term. Or if you don't feel up to checking the balance regularly. Get a BMS.

My active balancing unit is perfect. Hint hint. Smile.

Nothing should beat the cost-capacity of standard Lead Acid batteries, they have been around the longest and should still be the cheapest for power capacity.

Unless you find something else at a huge clearance/lost revenue discount, you won't be able to beat standard Lead Acids.

Lead Acids are much heavier than LiPo designs for their capacity (also called power density), which is the main reason they are not being considered for electric vehicles.

LiFePO4 is getting pretty close to lead acid prices nowadays, and in fact is already cheaper after accounting for longer lifetime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cviyIIvBlto

You got any real prices comparisons or bench test data to back that up?

When I compared consumer wholesale prices a few years ago, Lead Acid was still a much better value for the power capacity than anything else. But I haven't done it for 2017 yet, and I would love to see how the gap has closed.

https://smile.amazon.com/Tenergy-LiF.../dp/B01M4P35Z9
That's a little less than $150 for what would basically make a 110Ah, 12.8V pack. That's already cheaper than good quality lead acid. Cheap lead acid can be had for less than that, but wouldn't last as long especially if used a lot.

Princeton university did a cost comparison between solar storage systems in 2013. Even then it was cheaper on a per cycle basis to use lithium.

Lithium battery prices have plummeted since.

One thing, don't compare horses to cars. Lead acid has serious draw backs for SESS. High self-discharge. Poor charge/discharge efficiency. The need to keep the pack fully charged. Low/short lifespan. The list goes on.

The benefits of lithium are not just lower cost. Its also a much easier and user friendly chemistry.

I have just gone 5 days without a complete recharge. Yesterday. A sunny day, I still didn't make full charge. I ran the dishwasher and a wide variety of tools. Using some 8kw of power, most of it from my solar panels. I did manage to recharge the batteries close to full.

You could never get away with that with Lead.

That's why I went on this journey. To find a better battery solution. It ain't perfect. But lithium makes lead obsolete.

When the automobile came out horses had been used for transportation for hundreds of years. Didn't make a difference.

Well. I got an email earlier this week from one of my fellow chevy volt experimenters. Not sure what happened but he had his cells go wildly out of whack.

After some months of no real voltage change this happened.

(Note: For all measurements, the module was almost fully charged, to within .5 V of 48 volts. The fellow, we'll call him A. Has 1 module that he uses in his tiny house for lights, radio, monitoring. I cannot say there were no external factors influencing the cell voltages [ie. putting a load on just one cell through a cell voltage monitor or ...])

As of 48 hours ago his cells measured:

1st 6 cells Diff=.05v
2nd 6 cells Diff=.3v

He uses a 6S monitor. It has proven reliable and accurate, verified with a voltmeter.

.3v is a lot. .05 is when I like to start balancing for sure.

Solution:

I rented him a "redwing" bms and after 24 hrs he reports

24 hours ago:

1st 6 cells Diff=.06v
2nd 6 cells Diff=.1v

Today he reported:

1st 6 cells Diff=.042v
2nd 6 cells Diff=.023v

Hmmm. I've gone 16 months without any real shift in cell balance/voltage variance. Can anyone else report on this?

Very glad to have the BMS to reestablish safe voltage balances. And let this serve notice to anyone using Volt modules. Monitor your cells!

Final update on the cell balance anomoly:

After a week of RedWing BMS use he reports
.009v difference.

Perfect result.

We will now be monitoring to watch if the cells go back out of balance.

Any update on your system? How low have you taken the pack down too?
Looking at doing 10 of these batteries for a peak load reducing system. 17.4kw array.
If anyone else has done this I would like to hear from you.
Thanks Neal

Being inspired by Creeky's experiences and others such as Mark Osborne and devildestiny555 on YouTube, I also took the plunge into the rabbit hole to use EV batteries for off grid use.

I expanded my 4kwh of 2 Chevy Volt modules that I used to test proof of concept, and added complete Volt and Nissan Leaf packs to an awesome 44kwh total storage solution. I am currently using 840w of Solyndra panels to top them off with a Victron 150/35 controller. I have a 8.1kw of panels in my garage to be setup for off grid use in this system (totally overkill for my application...but I got them on sale for .13/watt). I am using two PIP 5048 inverter/chargers in parallel for 8kw of off grid power. The inverters are cross wired to two 5000w transformers to give me split-phase 240/120.

I have been running this setup for 3 months now and could not be happier. I know technology changes with the wind, but if anyone is considering lead acid for a large storage solution...please think again. The advantages of lithium...and relatively inexpensive EV batteries repurposed...are too great!