Adventures in Chinese Lighting...
 

I have been trying to find some proper lighting for my Mini-Loo, and have looked through several candidates. Since the Mini-Loo is very mini, standard lighting choices don't seem to work very well in a tiny space that is, at the same time, a toilet, lavatory and shower...

My first candidate was a quartz light can that I got a Lowes. It mounts flush in the ceiling, and has a 50 watt quartz bulb. The color was great but the intensity was way too powerful. Also, it's not really water-proof and the 120 volts made me queezy, as the Mini-Loo also functions as a shower.

Next, I turned my attention to water-proof lighting, and haunted the boating accessories stores, but the selection was pretty limited and the prices were decidedly un-EcoRenovatorial.

So I started thinking along the lines of LED lighting... water-proof would be best, but at 12 volts, a wet light fixture would not be life threatening.

I did find a down-light at Lowes that was flush mount, LED, too big, and over $60... again, decidedly un-EcoRenovatorial.

So I started looking through the wild jungle of Chinese LED Lighting where I found 549,921 active listings... Surely there would be something to choose from here!

(* to be continued... *)

get a string of LED christmas tree lights, in door or out door lights and cut them to 1/10 as long for 12v, $5 later you have lights.

High Power Waterproof 10W White LED Flood Light Lamp 800 - 900LM 12V | eBay

This is my purchase - 10w spot light for exterior, and can be operated safely using 9m of .75mm twin and earth.

Complete Solar Lighting System Analysis - YouTube

I did this to it and have been running it indoors for months - excellent light.
- gets as hot as a cup of coffee - no danger

not pic1 - kitchen light is a 12w flood - picture 3 is the light

This is a pretty nice light... I may get one to try out.

Just in case it wasn't stated very well, the lighting will go inside a shower (the whole tiny bathroom is a shower) and will have to survive high humidity and probably direct water spray.

Also, the space is tiled and very small (32" X 49").

One problem I'm having is shadows... In a larger space, shadows are relatively small, but in this tiny Mini-Loo, shadows loom very large. I have a tiled niche which will have a hinged mirror for shaving, etc. and somehow I'll need to light that area suitably, too... and there needs to be some kind of water proof switch which will not jeopardize my remaining life. I'm considering maybe IR sensors and also maybe capacitive switching built into the mirror or water faucet itself... touch the mirror or maybe the sink faucet handle and the lights will go on & off.

If I had it to do all over again, I'd probably have gone for a translucent ceiling with a ka-jillion LEDs above it. But alas, I'm pretty much committed to putting the lights inside the shower space.

There's just so much to consider here...

• color temperature
• wattage
• voltage
• wet-proof
• contrast
• switching

Interesting problems, for sure.

Best,

-AC

3-Watt Down Light...
 

One of the first lights I tried out was this 3-watt down light. It comes with a 120 VAC in, 12 volt DC regulated current out power supply. There is a finned aluminum heat sink on the back side that barely gets warm to the touch.


It has some kind of plastic lens structure in front of the LEDs and it has a spot / flood dispersal characteristic.

It is "warm white" which means that they put tiny yellow filters in front of the LEDs. The light is of a slightly yellowish cast, but not enough by itself to sabotage the light as a candidate. The directed 3-watts is actually a lot of light, plenty for reading, etc. In the tiny space I have to work with, I can't figure any way to work with this light to make it useful for shaving, etc.

It would require a hole of about 3 inches to be drilled in the ceiling, the blue spring-loaded "ears" shown in the photo are folded back and the light is inserted through the hole, and the "ears" hold the light firmly in place.

The light will swivel along one axis, so it can be pointed, but to a limited degree.

The swivel feature is nice, but it opens up the possibility of allowing intrusion of water spray.

I temporarily affixed the light to the ceiling and tried it out for awhile... it's a pretty nice light, but it would need additional lighting as it's beam does not fill the entire mini-loo area.

Still a contender...

Best,

-AC

I agree . . Looks nice.
I would use anyway if me as Low Power LED's are top of the list at the moment.

The auto trade is pushing it hard, as the lights are kewl looking for the Lads to add to any motor, without problem. WKD

You could use any light you like behind a sauna light fixture And put the switch outside the door. I believe that (here in MA at least) bathrooms under a certain size have to have the switch outside the door.

not just any lights !!
 

Hi S-f, I looked at your link and was very impressed.
Do you have Normal Lighting inside your Property, or are you planning to make the lights an off grid project also. I know nothing about the heating side of it.

:)

Lucite Downlight...
 

Another LED light I'm considering has a cylindrical screw-on dome that gives the light an interesting design quaility, and strongly affects the dispersal pattern.


The light assembly requires a hole of about 1 3/8" in diameter. Spring clips will hold the bulb against the ceiling.



The lucite is about 1.8" diameter and has a height of about 3/4".



Of the bulbs I have checked out, this one has the widest dispersion pattern. The lucite has a 'light-pipe' quality and side dispersion is as strong as wide downward dispersion.




Seeing this light in opperation really makes me realize just how much directivity is part of the LED light effect we expect. In this case, there is essentially no directional directivity, and more bulbs are required to achieve a useful lumen level.

This light definitely has a 'warm' look but in use, I didn't notice objectionable yellowness.

These LED lights come with a regulated LED power supply that will work with power from 110 to 220 VAC.

Best,

-AC

HEY ..

What is the power of the LED ?
And remember, up high pointed down might give you a nice effect ..

The ones I've looked at so far are 3-watts. The first one was made up of 3 1-watt LEDs and the second had one 3-watt LED.

(* I'm not sure when you say, "...up high pointed down...", if you mean using a downlight aimed upwards as a source for bounced lighting, or if you mean putting the downlight assembly at the very highest point in the room? I'm assuming you mean the former...*)

I think you are quite right about that, and I have considered each of these bulbs in that context. One thing that I consider is the merits of CFL vs. LED lighting. CFL is usually less directed than most LED lights, but CFL has a higher light output per watt (at least at this point in the development of the technologies). So I consider CFL to usually be a better candidate for fill or indirect lighting.

However, regarding your comment... for my very specialized application (inside a very small shower) indirect, bounced or fill light could be a problem.

I am trying to anticipate potential water intrusion, and light assemblies that could be, at best water-proof, or at least water-resistant, are what I'm looking for.

Best,

-AC

I'm using an LED light inside my truck topper. It's 12V, about 1 watt, and sold as a marine light in the boating section at Walmart. The wiring is potted in some sort of plastic and it looks reasonably well built. Cost me $18 and change.

Thanks, do you have any photos of the light in action?

Best,

-AC

Photos you want, photos you get. I took some photos after dark with the light on. This fixture has a switch. The switch is sealed underneath a rubber membrane.

Photo taken with a flash to show the fixture:
http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/...ps74b5f833.jpg

Taken without a flash:
http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/...ps91c9133e.jpg

Showing how it lights up inside the topper:
http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/...ps11758f7d.jpg

It makes enough light in there to read a newspaper. Barely.

I take it that you charge the Battery with the Boat Alternator ?

Looks pretty good... you said you got them at Walmart?

-AC

Are you trying to find just a single fixture that will light up the room? It would seem that you'd need multiple/dispersed lighting to not have shadow problems in the small area.

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm finding out. I've also learned that point-source light makes the problem worse.

Like I mentioned previously, if I had it to do over, I'd make the ceiling out of translucent plastic and use many small lights above the translucent plastic.

So far, the lucite covered lights seem to be the best candidate... maybe use 4 of them.

LED strips might be appropriate, too.

-Best,

-AC

Any luck finding anything else/new?

Funny that you should ask...

I did find another interesting light. I don't know if it will solve my unique problem with lighting the mini-loo, but it is a very interesting light nonetheless.




It is called a COB (Curcuit-On-Board), and not to be confused with Corn Cob Lights.




The idea is that several LEDs are directly attached to a circuit board, in close proximity, and the circuit board becomes the heat sink.




This particular light has a built in reflector and clear LED cover and contains the circuitry to change from 120-240 VAC to regulated current appropriate for the LEDs. There is no focusing lens integrated into the LED, so light is soft and widely dispersed. I didn't notice power detail when I ordered the light as I also ordered a LED power supply, too (NOT NEEDED). I'm sure I'll be able to use it on other projects.




The light has 'wings' that will hold it in place once it is inserted through a ceiling hole.

This light has a yellow filter to make it 'warm white', also available are cool white. In service, I didn't notice any yellow effect. My camera doesn't seem to auto color-balance on LED lighting but at hight, by eye, the color looks very natural to me.

I think that this is a really great light, it cost about $12 w/free shipping from China. I am strongly considering ordering about 5 more of them for ceiling lights in the basement.

This unit is rated about 7 watts (14 - 0.5 watt LEDs). Note that the lack of focusing lenses will result in a lower light level per square foot, but a much wider dispersion.

By the way, I came upon this wide array of LED lights by typing "LED light" into the ebay search window, and there I found everything that China had to offer, all 561,251 listings!

Best,

-AC

Typically those lights are designed to go into a housing like regular recessed lights to trap the heat and reduce fire hazards, also to provide an integral connection box to house the electrical connection

Hi Christopher,
I was interested in these LEDs also because they are inexpensive for recessed led lights. I bought some Crees that are horribly expensive and I'm always looking for alternatives to those. Unfortunately I don't think these LEDs and most of the other Chinese ones will work safely as recessed lights in the USA.

If you look closely at them they all seem to have spring loaded retaining clips that work like toggle bolts used in walls, that is, they need a flat surface like wallboard to install into. That means they won't install into recessed lighting cans because those can surfaces are oriented perpendicularly to them. The retaing clips on the Crees, (ecosmart brand) have a really ingenious retainer clip that grips the side surface of cans but still allow you to remove them. They work on surfaces that are oriented perpendicular to the Chinese LEDs.

Bottom line: you can't protect those LEDs from the insulation with can assemblies and they would be completely illegal from an inspection standpoint to be installed in insulated ceilings in the US. You might be able to install the smaller ones in cabinets. I wouldn't even know these things if I hadn't been forced to do the research because I didn't want to pay so much money for led recessed lighting. I guess you get what you pay for sometimes. Sorry to be negative but it's better to know about these things. I think a lot of the money you are paying for legal led recessed lights is the certification process the manufacturers are forced to go through.

+1. Cheap LEDs fade fast. I won't install LED lighting in my house if it's not Cree.

In Britain, it'd be allowable to install an intumescent "hood" over that sort of fitting.

I'd post a link, but the forum won't allow me to because I'm a new user...

Google for Intumescent downlight firehood or similar...

Tim.

inferior !!
 

I have never heard of inferior LE Diodes !!
Can you please name the manufacturers of such poor quality components and tell me how you discovered this.

After looking at their website it turns out you may mean AMERICAN and not CREE !!

:thumbup: see this:

Cree Lighting FAQ: Indoor Lighting

Are your products compliant with the trade agreements act -

If you overdrive an LED for more light output and/or it overheats, it will get dim.
This gets more important if your light fixture is too small and sealed. I've been lucky with my bedroom light, it is one of the 15" inverse glass dome type, which seem to be popular and I like them. My 2 8 watt LED lamps aren't getting too hot in the enclosure and after using them for almost two years(if I recall on the time correctly), they seem as bright as when I bought them. These are Sylvania Ultra 3000K LEDs (LED8A19/G2), the box says 50,000 hours life and 430 lumens. These make my room brighter than the two 13 watt CFLs that they replaced, even though the lumen level is lower than what the CFLs were rated for. ..and I don't have to wait for them to warm up to give me full brightness.

For what it's worth. "Assembled in US from domestic and foreign components" is on the box. They used to be $40 when I got my first one, then I immediately bought a second. Now I have a total of 5 after they went on sale during $10 and $15 sales at Menards. The packaging says they are compatible with dimmers but for the best efficiency of the lighting in my house, I put the appropriate light output in each fixture so that I have it as bright as I want.

All LEDs fade, the fading gets exponentially quicker the hotter they run.

Good overview in this article:

Lighting the Way for LED Development

Yes - LED is more efficient than CFL
 

As for overdrive on an LED .... any component which demands a Load and has an incorrect Resistor on it shall perish.
An increase in its Light output would break down the material owing to the heat which has increased owing to higher Current passing through.
It is that very heat which destroys the diode .

Now the big question is - Why do you need to use Low voltage bulbs on your projects.

Forget 120V or 240V - best playing with 12V / 24V / 48V .

What is sold as a DRIVER for Mains Voltage - is actually a drop down PSU .. !!

Problem with that kit is it wastes heat in the process.
Inverters waste heat in process ..

ECO to me does not = a 240V - 120V System. . . Get away from Mains - and you are on your way to an Off Grid System which will save you much money in the future. AND i AM TALKING LIGHTS ... and yes you are correct about the brighter LEDs over CFL.

120V / 10V = 12V = 10/1 ratio for the drop down coils = heat in the process!!
Why bother then with Mains - just use 12V from a Battery Directly on your LEDs WITH A Current Limiting Resistor.

KOI