Alaskan Home Energy Upgrade Project
 

I'm embarking on a home energy upgrade project through the Alaska Housing Finance Corp so I'll be sharing my project on this thread along with questions and insight to the project. http://www.ahfc.us/efficiency/energy...energy-rebate/

Under the program I'll be eligible for a rebate of up to $10,000 to cover the cost of the work.

So far I've had my as-is inspection and submitted the paperwork to enroll in the program. I'm still waiting to hear back if they have the funding to cover my project.

I'll post my report when I have moment this weekend.

Erich

Here's my report.

I've submitted my paperwork to enroll in the program, so I hope to receive confirmation soon.

Erich

Are your energy costs really that high? $13k annually in Juneau, AK?
What are they really at? The break-even costs provided seem incredibly high.

The HDD between Minneapolis, MN and Juneau, AK aren't that far off and Minneapolis has a double digit below zero heating design day and I think Juneau is roughly at zero degrees.

Your propane is about 6 times the cost of my natural gas but the electricity cost is similar to mine.

Cost of 100,000BTU of energy at $4.5/gallon of propane and $.1237/kwh.
Propane $4.918
Electricity $3.625

If you are paying that much for propane, you might want to consider at least supplementing your heat with the most efficient mini-split heat pump you can and your heating costs might drop quite a bit.

I think insulation and air sealing is more important though.
I'm a bit offended that their recommendation for air sealing is to only lose 500 CFM of air infiltration at 50 pascals. They want you to go from 1953CFM50 down to about 1500 CFM? I'd hope that they can get that down to 1200CFM, if not 1000. Air sealing is a huge deal.

Are you doing any of the work yourself or is this all being done by a contractor?

MN,

Your right in asking about the energy costs. Mine are no where near that high. I don't know where the inspector got the numbers, but I assume it's more of an average for all of Alaska. In rural Alaska heating prices really are that high. Gas is over $8 per gallon, as is heating fuel.

As for HDD, we don't get super cold since were on the coast, but we also don't get very warm during the summer. A we might hit 75F degrees for a total of 14 days per year. It's pretty chilly here most of the time. The coldest I've seen it in 10 years is -15F but we hover around 32F for more then 4 months of the year. We basically have heating demand every day of the year.

Propane is $3.40/gallon
Heating Oil is 4.16/gallon
Electricity is around $0.12/kwh
We do not have Natural Gas Service here.

I like the idea of a mini-split. I've seen a few going in around town and looked into them online. I need to talk to the program administrator and see if they will cover any of it. The inspector mentioned it in our report, but that doesn't guarantee they will pay for it.

The other issue I found is that he called for a new propane direct vent heater but it has to meet 84% efficiency. I can't find any that use propane that can do that. From what I've read the program will not pay to change fuel sources, so I don't know how that will work.

I completely agree with you on air sealing. I'm also going to make sure I close up the crawlspace to cut down on moisture coming in the house. Indoor air quality and moisture is a huge issue in Juneau. It's still really common to have vented crawlspaces and a vapor barrier that is not vapor tight. It just gushes cold moist air into the house. This makes us the black mold capitol of the world!

I'll be doing all the work myself. Most contractors up here are not well trained or trust worthy and the ones who are have more work then they know what to do with and cost a fortune.

Erich

"I'll be doing all the work myself. Most contractors up here are not well trained or trust worthy and the ones who are have more work then they know what to do with and cost a fortune."

This is how I felt too when it came to sealing up the place and adding insulation. I just didn't feel that a contractor would take the time to do it right. There's a program here from one of my utilities that offers to pay 50% with a small total limit $1k I think. I asked about how I'd get reimbursed and their response started with 'your contractors invoice will need to...'. Turns out my utility wasn't going to pay for about two dozen cans of spray foam, about 1000 pounds of cellulose, blower rental, and 2 sheets of 2" R10 XPS that I bought so far but that sure didn't stop me from buying it all anyway. I'm still surprised that the total for all of it so far has only been about $600.

Work isn't complete for me yet and I'm looking to eventually retrofit on an additional 4" of polyiso on top of what I already have(R40ish walls in the end) but that will be a spendy project. I'm not even sure if there are even 10 homes in climates in the upper half of Alaska that have that much, so I'm going a bit over the standard but if I was paying that price for propane I'd be motivated to get at least 2" of polyiso or XPS as a minimum(my personal minimum) added.

I'd get ahold of that guy and ask him what units actually get 84% because there is only one brand that makes a 90+ direct vent wall heater that I'm aware of and that's Empire and they don't sell a small one. It is 17500 input on high stage(15778BTUhr output) and 8750 on low stage.
Empire Comfort Systems PVS18 17,500 BTU UltraSaver90 Plus Vented Wall Furnace
$2k for one. The issue is that a 2600sq ft house isn't going to only have one.

The brand of these that I like is Rinnai
Direct Vent Wall Furnace | Rinnai

Here's everything 81% AFUE or better in the ahridirectory.org Direct Heating section that runs on propane.
Certified Ref # Model Status Trade/Brand Name Manufacturer Model Heating Capacity (Btuh) Input AFUE Equipment Type Fuel Type
7434751 Active EMPIRE EMPIRE COMFORT SYSTEMS, INC. PVS35 32130 35000 91.8 Wall Furnace Natural Gas,Propane Gas
7434724 Active EMPIRE EMPIRE COMFORT SYSTEMS, INC. PVS18 15778 17500 90.2 Wall Furnace Natural Gas,Propane Gas
2029759 Active EX08C RINNAI AMERICA CORPORATION EX08C (RHFE-202FTA)(P) 6642 8000 83.0 Wall Furnace Propane Gas
2029767 Active EX11C RINNAI AMERICA CORPORATION EX11C (RHFE-265FTA)(P) 9000 11000 82.0 Wall Furnace Propane Gas
2029769 Active EX17C RINNAI AMERICA CORPORATION EX17C (RHFE-434FTA)(P) 13700 17000 82.0 Wall Furnace Propane Gas
2029771 Active EX22C RINNAI AMERICA CORPORATION EX22C (RHFE-559FTA)(P) 16898 22000 82.0 Wall Furnace Propane Gas
2029809 Active ENERGY SAVER RINNAI AMERICA CORPORATION RHFE-1004RFA-P 29200 36500 82.0 Wall Furnace Propane Gas
4861399 Active ES38 RINNAI AMERICA CORPORATION RHFE1004FTA 29200 36500 81.4 Wall Furnace Propane Gas

The direct vent fireplaces are nice to , I have one they look great in a room , they go up to 85% in efficiency also.

My fireplace is a Heat n Glo , I checked on the their website they have a model with 92.5% efficiency.

Energy Pro Gas Fireplace

Thanks for heating suggestions, there are some good options there.

I currently have a Rannai Energysaver 1004F as my main heat source down stairs so that's the one he's referencing for replacement. If I read the program correctly I can get partial credit for an appliance that doesn't meet 84% but I have to get prior permission... I need to get some clarification on that though.

I think my wife will really like the possibility of a gas fireplace. I'd have to do some room rearranging for it though.

Erich

It would work well for your living area and kitchen etc. in conjunction with say a lower Btu furnace or mini splits at the other end of the house.
A smaller 12,000 btu mini split with two indoor units would work nice and cheaply for individual room heating.

the mini split would be the most cost effective to run, making it the better option. Having the grant pay toward a fireplace and mini split would be a nice gift $ that keeps giving with your reduce heating cots.

Maybe also look into some altcoin mining rigs if you're OK using experimental technology.

So the authorized improvements break down into several categories:

1. Heater replacement and controls
1.1 Install programmable thermostat
1.2 Replace primary heating system with 84% AFUE
2. Insulation
2.1 Add R-14 ridged foam at rim joist above grade
2.2 Add R-3.5 insulating blanket on garage door
2.3 Add R-38 fiberglass batts to vaulted ceiling attic
2.4 Add R-40 ridged foam on foundation walls.
2.5 Add R-40 ridged foam around inside perimeter of foundation footing (under vapor barrier)
2.6 Add R-33 blown in insulation above laundry room.
2.7 Add R-30 batts above garage
2.8 Replace back door with R-2.8 door.
2.9 Replace front door with U-0.16 fiberglass door.
3. Air Tightening (and mechanical ventilation)
3.1 Air Seal to reduce air leakage by 500 CFM at 50 Pascals
3.2 Install mechanical ventilation in bathrooms

Based on the point spread it looks like the max reimbursement I can get is $8500. Not too bad, but it takes the expensive heating system options off the table. I can't float paying most of a new $7500 propane fire place out of pocket.

I have a couple questions right off the bat. What do you guys think of items 2.4 & 2.5? Placing R-40 on the foundation walls and along the floor of the crawlspace means that I'll need 8" of pink foam board. That seems crazy to me. I see new construction all over town only using 4" (2" inside, 2" outside).

Also, in item 2.9, what is a U-0.16 fiberglass door? I get the R-2.8 right above it. I guess I need to do some more research into doors.

Do you guys see anything else that looks strange?

On the replacement of my primary heating source, I talked with the program administrator about finding a heater that can meet 84% AFUE and he said that I can install a less efficient one, I just won't get all the points. I have to contact my rater and have him run the numbers for the lower efficiency and get me the new points. I can't loose too many or it will drop me out of the $8500 level.

Erich

I don't have a clue what that means.

Erich

Erich $7,500 for the Gas fireplace is frighting.

Look into mini split heat pumps , price some units and the energy costs for You to run them. I think they are the most cost effective systems going. Don't let them sell you on the $ Big units with Duct work $ you don't need them , most people don't but they love to sell them to anyone.

I agree. I really like the high efficiency, 92.6%, but the cost is too much. I called the manufacturer to see if they made something in the 80-84% range and the customer service gal couldn't find one...

As for the mini split, they look like great systems but I won't get any credit for it since it's a different form of heating. The inspector listed it as an option, but I get no points for it.

By completing at least 15.6 points I can be reimbursed up to $8500, so each point is worth $545.

Erich

A couple of updates.

I got a hold of my energy rater and got a couple of things clarified and worked out:

1.2 Replace primary heating system with 84% AFUE.

He ran the numbers again and going with a newer model of my Rinnai heater will get me 8.8pts (instead of the 9.1). I'm really happy about this because the points are still high, the swap will be easy and the new model has time settings in the thermostat so we can reduce the temperature at night.

2.4 Add R-40 ridged foam on foundation walls.
2.5 Add R-40 ridged foam around inside perimeter of foundation footing (under vapor barrier)

He was unaware of the R-40 requirement in the report. He said the program just spits out the number. He said I only need to go R-20, so that's a huge savings in insulation costs.

When I divide the rebate premium into the number of points I get $500 per point. With this the insulation still doesn't break even, but that's not taking into account the long term energy savings, but I'd like to make it as inexpensive as I can from the beginning. Now I'm shopping around for the best price on foam board.

Erich

That is 6" of polyisocyanurate according to my chart !

It's 8" of the pink foam board, which seemed crazy to me!

I can handle 4".

Erich

I would just point out. The pink stuff is xps insulation. According to recent testing it actually improves in R value as it gets cold. Polyiso. Which has the highest R value (6.5/"). Does not perform as well (r value decreases) in very cold temperatures. Something to watch for.

I like xps on the outside layer and polyiso as you move towards the warm part of the home. This gives you the best of both worlds. So for your 4" go 2 (r10) xps and 2 polyiso (r13). Now you have r23.

To save money you could try calling roofing/construction contractors. They often sell off end of job overs, demolition remains and culled insulation. Prices can be good.

I think it's only xps in contact with the ground. tho, little late for installing ground contact insulation this year.

Great advice!

I'll be working on the inside of my crawlspace. Opening up the outside perimeter isn't feasible for most of my house due to things like porches, asphalt and concrete walks, ect.

Thanks,

Erich

Do you have any data to support that ?

"EPS labeled at R19 will be performing at about R21 in mid-winter in a US zone 7 location (at the typical average temp through the foam, 70F interior temp), whereas iso labeled at R21 under ASTM test conditions would be performing at about R19."
Dana1


"Since nobody has mentioned it I'll state for the record, you should never (and I mean NEVER!!) use polyiso under a slab, or between a foundation-wall and soil. But it's OK to use on the interior side of open basements. Iso is mildly hyrgroscopic, and will wick & store moisture over time, if it gets regular exposure.

Initial moisture uptake of EPS is faster than XPS (due to the interstitial spacing between beads), but at comparable densities has higher fraction of fully closed cells, making it somewhat better at handling long term moisture exposure. Even at 7% moisture content it still retains most of it's R value, as indicated in sailawayrb's industry references.

Both EPS and XPS have significant derating/uprating curves with temperature. In the US the legally labeled R value of Type-II EPS is R4.2/inch when the average temperature through the material is 75F, but the tested R value goes up at lower temps, down with higher temps. In a heated slab where the bottom side of the slab is 85F and the subsoil temp is 55F, it's performance is somewhat better than labeled.

The derating/uprating curves for XPS are similar, but not as pronounced as with EPS, at least early in it's lifecycle. Freshly blown it's R-value is about R7/inch @ 75F, but that falls fairly quickly (months, a couple of years at most) to under R5.5/inch, with a much slower decline over time from there. It is allowed to be labeled at R5/inch by it's average performance over some presumed lifecycle (IIRC it's 25 years, but don't count on that.) It's fully depleted R-value of 1.5lb XPS is identical to Type-II EPS. In under 50 years any performance difference would be largely theoretical (and miniscule.)"
Dana1


According to Insulation Corporation of America: “Expanded polystyrene (EPS) is the winner! This was clearly shown in an independent, third-party test. Expanded polystyrene (EPS) maintains its R-value even after long-term exposure in northern climates. Extruded polystyrene (XPS) was shown to have lost R-value over time. In this 15 year side by side dual EPS outperforms XPS in both R-value retention and decreased water absorption. XPS insulation was reduced by half, while EPS boasts maintaining 94% of its specified R-value. Not only does XPS lose about half of their R-value it also costs about 50% MORE than EPS. So why would anyone pay 50% more for 50% less? EPS is manufactured in large blocks, it is cut into sheets or virtually any special size and shape. XPS is a final form and does not have the size flexibility that EPS offers. The product performance, size flexibility, recyclability, and the lower price of our “white stuff” clearly makes EPS the champion.”


"The International Building Code (IBC) and International Residential Code (IRC) are the predominant building codes. These codes rely on the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) 32-01 standard to determine appropriate thermal properties of XPS and EPS used for below-ground building applications for long-term protection against frost heave. ASCE 32-01 shows that nominal 5.0 R per inch XPS effectively becomes 4.0 after long-term exposure when used horizontally (retains 80% of original nominal R-value). Nominal 4.0 R per inch EPS effectively becomes 2.6 after long-term exposure when used horizontally (retains 65% of original nominal R-value). Nominal 5.0 R per inch XPS effectively becomes 4.5 after long-term exposure when used vertically (retains 90% of original nominal R-value). Nominal 4.0 R per inch EPS effectively becomes 3.2 after long-term exposure when used vertically (retains 80% of original nominal R-value)."

NOTE: Above is in the IBC Building Code, but is not correct or supported by un-biased testing!


So, relative to Rigid Cellular Polystyrene (RCPS) thermal properties, both products may be successfully used provided one uses the appropriate long-term R-value in the design. We use the ASCE 32-01 values. Of course one also needs to consider RCPS structural properties in the design to avoid building slab settling. This is always important and becomes increasing critical when you are designing a hydronic radiant heating system for a building in Anchorage for example with many inches of RCPS.


to glue foam to clean concrete

http://www.styro.net/PDF/Flyers/Flexcoat%20Flyer.pdf

glue foam to foam: Glidden gripper


GREAT INFO

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...-basement-wall
Briefly, how are basement walls insulated on the exterior?

After the basement wall has been protected with a dampproofing or a waterproofing system, insulation is installed from the top of the footing to somewhere near the top of the rim joist. Acceptable insulation materials include extruded polystyrene (XPS), expanded polystyrene (EPS), closed-cell spray polyurethane foam, or mineral wool. Polyisocyanurate insulation should not be used because it can absorb water.

Below-grade insulation does not need to be attached to the concrete; it is held in place by the backfill. The best backfill material is a fast-draining granular material like gravel or crushed stone with a thin cap of soil or clay.

Above-grade insulation may or may not need to be attached to the concrete — fastening methods include foam-compatible adhesive, TapCons with washers, and specialty fasteners like Hilti IDP fasteners or Rodenhouse Plasti-Grip PMF fasteners — depending on the height of the exposed foam and the method used to protect it.

Some builders cantilever their 2x6 perimeter walls so that the basement insulation isn't proud of the siding. If the basement insulation ends up proud of the siding, you'll have to protect the top of the basement insulation with metal flashing. The top of the flashing needs to include a vertical leg that extends upward and is lapped by the housewrap; the flashing should be sloped, and the bottom of the flashing needs to terminate in a drip leg that extends beyond the insulation and the insulation protection materials.


If I insulate on the outside, how should I protect the above-grade foam?

The above-grade portions of all types of exterior insulation must be protected from physical abuse and sunlight. Among the products than can be used for this purpose are the following:

A cementitious coating or cementitious stucco (for example, Styro Industries Brush On ST), with or without metal lath
A cementitious coating that includes chopped fiberglass (for example, Quikrete #1219 foam coating or surface-bonding cement)
An acrylic coating like Styro Industries FlexCoat or Styro Industries Tuff II
EIFS (synthetic stucco)
Cement backerboard, with or without a layer of stucco
Pressure-treated plywood
Metal flashing
A fiberglass panel like Ground Breaker from Nudo Products
Styro Industries FP Ultra Lite panels (XPS coated with mineral granules adhered to one side)
Protecto Wrap Protecto Bond (a flexible peel-and-stick membrane with a textured, gritty coating)
ProGuard Cement Faced Insulated Sheathing.

For more information on this topic, see How to Finish Exterior Foundation Insulation.

Finally have some movement on this project. I received my Honeywell wireless relay and thermostats and installed them last night.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...ps8f01ba65.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...ps969c6d6a.jpg

It seems to work very well. I have two baseboards controlled by one thermostat. There were some complaints that the wireless transmitter makes a high pitched buzzing sound. I heard it when I first turned in on and was pairing it with the thermostat but it went away after that.

I had the time wrong this morning so it didn't kick on when I expected so tomorrow should be a treat to wake up to a warmer room.

Erich

Here's a photo of it installed. I haven't mounted the thermostat yet.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...ps7042c3ac.jpg

Also, I have a TON of 2" insulation showing up tomorrow plus some batt insulation for over the garage.

Erich

I received my first shipment of materials over the weekend. Three bundles of 2" ridged foam and a bunch of batt insulation. The ridged foam will go inside the foundation and the batt insulation will go over the garage.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...ps5c93f594.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...ps1152eab2.jpg

I also built a set of stairs to make it easier to access the crawlspace. I'm going to be spending quite a bit of time down there, lol.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...psd8882421.jpg

Erich

Sweet , doing it yourself is going to save thousands of dollars which will be a immediate payback.

The project is going to be nice for your heating bill as well as increase the resale value or at least attract more buyers if you ever sell.

That's the hope. I've been monitoring the temp in the crawlspace (man I wish I had a data logger so I'd have constant data) and I'm hopeful I see the ambient temperature go up as I install the insulation. It averages about 43-44 degrees right now.

Erich

Woo, thats a lot of XPS haha. Very nice! I'm liking where this is headed and looking forward to more updates.

Erich, how do you intend to fasten the foam? I've been puting some in my basement, you will tell the difference.

On half the foundation there are 2"x4" pony walls that I will be placing it in-between. On the sections of foundation without the pony walls I'll be using some long masonry screws. I haven't chosen which ones I want to use yet.

Erich

I finally installed some insulation this weekend. We cut a few panels and I got them foamed in. I also got some of the rim joist insulation in place. It's pretty tough to maneuver the foam gun to the back but there's not much that can be done about that...

Here's some pics:

Before:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...psfcab0bbc.jpg

After:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...psb81d9bb8.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...ps91ad9522.jpg
Erich

We had a productive 3 day weekend. We got both new doors in. A new front and new back door with proper threshold membranes and air sealing foam.

Interestingly, the back door had no insulation around the door jamb while the front door had fiberglass batt insulation stuffed in the cracks. Can you guess which one had evidence of moisture issues? Yup, the batt insulation. The water vapor would condense at the due point within the batt insulation and mold started to grow from that point out toward the outside of the house.

There was not structural damage, but it was evident. Life lesson; either insulate and seal it with foam, or don't insulate it at all.

Here's some pics.

New front door
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...psba5bdcc7.jpg

New back door
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...ps6c218bd2.jpg

Erich

Its looking great Erich. Any recent updates?

I've installed a new insulated garage door and got back down under the house and did some more foundation foaming. Nothing too glamorous. I'm hopeful that I can start hanging larger foam panels on the foundation soon. I think I have a pretty good system for that.

Insulating the rim joist bays is a total pain because my contractor foam gun just barely fits, lol.

Erich

Have you tried a piece of tubing sized to have a snug fit on the nozzle of the gun? I have done this to make the cheap tube cans easier to shake and hold in the proper orientation for dispensing into tight spaces like those. Helped me a ton. I haven't used a gun though but I'm sure it would work. You can clean the tube out with acetone and reuse the tube and I've even reused disposable Great Stuff cans too but unscrewing the tube and acetone washing things when I'm done foaming has allowed me to reuse cans. The gun stuff never seemed cheaper or easier for me and I always did little bits at a time but the strategy worked for me.

Hope this helps.

That's a great idea. I'm going to find some tubing that fits. Doing the joist bays is by far the worst part of the project!

Thanks!

Erich

I installed some more insulation this weekend. I started hanging larger sheets of foam on the smooth footing walls. I'm using some concrete inserts and then a 5" wood screw. Seems to work really well. I only need 2 per panel. One at the top into the mud sill and one in the concrete.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...psbk1ejnig.jpg

Here's the set up.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...pse6j4g1qk.jpg

I finished all the foam on the north side of the house. (Except for the boards that will go down the spread footer and under the vapor barrier when I replace it.)
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...psxbdjx196.jpg

Erich

Wow, I missed this. Great progress. Can you tell any difference just working down there?

Thanks! So far the average temp has gone up about 2 degrees. I think it will get warmer when the vapor barrier is taped tight and the foam is installed on the ground perimeter. The damp crawlspace dirt has the largest impact on temperature when it's not below freezing outside.

Erich

I've been working every weekend on this project and haven't stopped to take too many photos, but here are a few.

These are for the attic insulation work I did over a bedroom and the garage.

First I had to vacuum out the ~6" of cellulose insulation.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...pssftkm3o9.jpg

Then I taped the vapor barrier and sealed all the penetrations. I also installed new baffles and used scrap foam to cover the top of the walls where the new blown in insulation would be thin.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...psg80o50ho.jpg

I need to get some finished pics.

Erich

I installed some 2x4's to make a crawl platform and help me know how much insulation to blow in.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...pshw3au2t6.jpg


Next I turned my attention to the garage attic. For some reason they used batt insulation so I just added to it. But first I wanted to address the lighting in the garage so I had some inexpensive T-8 lights on hand and installed them.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...psqic0atwy.jpg


Here you can see the new and existing wiring along with the air sealing.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...pshmcdwdu8.jpg

I also ran some new power cables for a 240 volt heater and a future welder. Neither are connected in the breaker box at this point.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...psmxtkkzkc.jpg

Here's a view with the original insulation reinstalled. I have since added another R-30.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...psd3d7cvg5.jpg

Here's the original garage light. It was a scary 200watt light bulb that was getting so hot it was discoloring the drywall around the porcelain fixture.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...psuccjss5s.jpg


Here's the new garage lighting. 6 double T-8 fixtures.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...psksnm8nbi.jpg

Erich