I've seen this type of product before (PV integrated GTI) and from what I've read,
they have never been very successful.

I think one of the reasons is fear of not being able to replace the GTI, which might
fail, many years before the PV gets old..

Because, the GTI might be too embedded into the PV panel hardware, and because
the product is from a new company that might not be here to provide a new GTI
10 or 15 years down the road..

Enphase has spent a lot of money on product reliability testing.
They are out to prove their GTI units are going to last for a LONG time.

Plus, at this point in time, Enphase product failure records have started to build up.

Here's some info about problems with the new D380 inverters.

D380's failing at a high rate

It seems like Enphase really supports their products, when there is a problem.
I hear those M190s have a pretty good track record nowadays..

Hey Rich, I think you might be talking about the EXELTECH micro inverter, that type is attached by silicone to the back of the panel. If you use these on a panel you will need to get the panels re-certified by UL or some other accredited testing lab (TUV,ETL) which costs a minimum of $ 50,000 and a minumum of 6 weeks testing. Spinray Energy mounts the inverter on the panel frame just like the ENPHASE, so if it ever stops working (HOPEFULLY NOT FOR 30 YEARS..LOL) you can very easily replace it by unplugging the MC-4 connectors and unscrew 2 mounting screws and done.

Okay, so repairs would be easy, and you might even be able to use another brand of GTI, if you had to.

My personal preference is for the 230vac GTI.
I like the idea of getting the same power but with 1/2 the amps.
Feeding both sides of the home's 'grid' seems more balanced somehow.

One area where the plug-n-play idea runs into problems, is where the end-user
thinks more=better and plugs in too many GTIs into the same outlet.

But, even if he limits it to 1 KW, there could be some problems.

Problem #1
If, he doesn't use a dedicated 120vac line for his 1 KW. A line with only the one outlet..

It could happen like this.. If there are other sockets on the branch with the GTIs,
and someone plugs in a 1200w space heater, both the GTI and the Grid will be feeding it.

Everything is fine, even when someone plugs in the 1000w bread? cooker.. Everything is still cool..
2200 watts are being used.. Grid and GTI doing the job and 18.33 amps are flowing.. Hours go by..

But, then the clouds come over! Now we have a load of 18.33 amps on a 15A circuit!
Will the breaker pop open? Or will one of the 15A outlets start to warm up,
because some lazy electrician used the Push-in method, instead of the screws.. :rolleyes:

Anyways, the same thing could happen with a 20A 120 branch.
It could get overloaded, because it sees power from both ends.


Problem #2
I think the reason UL doesn't approve these PnP GTIs is because
the GTI can supply power to a defective appliance.


Let's say my 1200 space heater (plugged into the same branch) is defective and starts shorting out.
Once it exceeds 15 amps, my breaker should open and save my
house from being burned down..
BUT, that breaker might not be supplying 15A.. Because the GTIs on the other end
of the line, are shooting in 8.33 Amps..

So, the bad space heater can sit there cooking with 22 amps (2.6kw)
going into it and never pop the breaker...

That's why the UL hates PnP GTIs..

Cheers,
Rich

Another great thread. I know nothing about Solar PV, but I'm learning.

Lazy electrician? Aren't the outlets designed for the push-in connections to have their rated power. It shouldn't really be any different than when you use the push-in outlet plug when connecting devices except the wire will be in the push-in connection on the back of the outlet more securely.

I love those push in connections. Whenever I have a choice, I got the push-in sockets.. (or switches).
I remember when I first started using them, a few of my old Ham buddies
told me not to use the push-in.. They didn't trust them.
I've never heard of anyone having a problem with them.

I suppose you saw the little blue :rolleyes: (Rolls eyes: sarcastic) up there..?.

Cheers,
Rich

I have these same panels for Sale at around $300 local pickup only in South Jersey between philly and AC
10 miles south of Philly I have 11 panels 200 watts

What happened? Why haven't you installed them? Those are great panels..

I have 2 pallets of 220 watts coming in next week 56 panels
these new panels are Black frame so wanted to unload the silver framed Canadians.I got a out of this world price on them and could not pass them up.
I been so busy and undecided I had a total of 12 of the Canadians and still have to trim some trees. I will now have more then enough panels to do the front of my house and some on a pole facing south.
Im in NJ and solar is everywhere around here (2nd largest in the country behind CA) but tough laws to so need to do the permit thing
the only thing I can't find cheap is roof racking even locally . I may just use Unistrut and some kind of Pole mounts in back yard

I now have 7 Canadian panels left cheap trying to sell them to friends
Now that work is slow I got to get my *** in gear :o

In a lab, where receptacles are always mounted securely and flush with the wall, maybe... But IRL electricians do some sloppy *** work, especially if they're paid by the piece. This is why quick wire terminals aren't allowed for #12 any more, and I wouldn't be surprised if they stop letting people use them for #14 in a couple decades.