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Old 06-20-17, 05:43 PM   #1
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Lightbulb Panasonic Heat pump boiler

I've got great respect for the guys building their own heatpump systems, but didn't want you guys to miss out on this one.

Due to high subsidies on heat pumps in the Netherlands I was able to pick one of these up for just over a 100. The subsidy is 1150 and you're allowed to buy anywhere in the EU. This deal was so good I couldn't refuse it.



It takes about 4.5 hours to completely heat up the boiler and uses 250 Watts (COP is about 3.2). Filling up the entire boiler, according to the manual, should only take 0.99 KWh from 10 degrees C to 55 degrees C.

Using the touchscreen is easy and there are various programme options. I feel like the noise it produces is acceptable, however it is much louder than the on-demand gas heater.

Would I buy it for the full price or even half priced? Probably not, the savings of this unit are not going to be huge. However it has brought us very close to going full electric and dumping our natural gas grid connection.

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Old 06-20-17, 10:14 PM   #2
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Nice unit. I would not mind picking up something like that down the road. If they make it here.
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Old 06-21-17, 06:42 AM   #3
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Ator,

Nice find. Even better value. If you use hot water, the return on investment will be super short. I hope you keep this thread updated on the actual performance and running cost, maintenance issues, and such over time.

The picture looks real nice, but what do you really own? I saw Panasonic has been producing a line called Aquarea, which this product would fit into. What line and model number of product do you actually have?

http://www.aircon.panasonic.eu/GR_el...c-aquarea-dhw/

It would be nearly impossible for me to justify building a custom made unit if I could buy a new one for the price you quoted. For 100 euro, I would spend some of the savings on having the unit installed by a licensed contractor.

Last edited by jeff5may; 06-22-17 at 05:26 AM..
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Old 06-21-17, 08:23 AM   #4
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Default Paw-dhwm80znt

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff5may View Post
Nice find. Even better value. If you use hot water, the return on investment will be super short. I hope you keep this thread updated on the actual performance and running cost, maintenance issues, and such over time.
I'm going to hook the unit up to a kill-a-watt and will be posting my experiences. Would be great if this thread could give some extra info on this product group. There is very limited information on these units available on the internet.

The ROI is not going to be super fast, but the luxury of some extra cooling in the summer, instant hot water and the resale value of the unit make it worth a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff5may View Post
The picture looks real nice, but what do you really own? I saw Panasonic has been producing a line called Aquarea, which this product would fit into. What line and model number of product do you actually have?
The model is: PAW-DHWM80ZNT (The same unit is sold by Gorenje under the name TC80ZNT). This particular model is sold in 80,100 and 120L. I feel that 80L is more than plenty for our household. (2 Persons) Bigger units are not that much more expensive, but the compressor stays the same size. So the time to heat up increases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff5may View Post
It would be nearly impossible for me to justify building a custom made unit if I could buy a new one for the price you quoted. For 100 euro, I would spend some of the savings on having the unit installed by a licensed contractor.
The install was surprisingly easy, basically just fix it onto a wall and hook up cold & hot water lines, safety valve and a condense water drain. I also put some noise damping material between the wall and the unit, but I'm not sure how much that actually helps. What still needs to be done is exhaust the cold air; however with summer I'm not in a rush.

It's also pretty difficult to find a contractor that knows his way around one of these units. Most of the Netherlands uses on-demand gas boilers and new houses use split-systems. This all made me decide to do it with a buddy of mine.
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Old 06-21-17, 08:35 AM   #5
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Default The Numbers + Photo's

Of course you all are wondering when this investment is going to make sense. So therefore I did a quick calculation for you all. Also some photo's

The current electricity rates in the Netherlands are about €0.18/KWh and gas is about €0.58/m3 on average.

My on-demand water heater had an efficiency of 67% and the caloric value of gas is 35MJ/m3. Which means that the old heater cost €0.025/MJ.

1 KWh costs €0.18 and contains 3.6MJ. So computing all of that means that a COP of 2.02 is the break even point.

The unit should be capable of a COP of 3.1 with an inlet temperature of 15 C. This will pretty much be always possible, since the unit is using the exhaust air to heat up the water.

So with that in mind the cost savings should be some 50%, of course this is without standby losses. I have no idea how much these losses actually are. So if someone could help me out with that it would be much appreciated.





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Last edited by Daox; 06-21-17 at 11:30 AM..
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Old 06-21-17, 10:37 AM   #6
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Ator,
Kun je me naam en adres geven van waar je de unit hebt gekocht?
Daar heb ik ook wel belangstelling voor....

m.vr.gr.,
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geen energierekening meer: energie + woonhuis van de fam. Kriegsman in Ootmarsum
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Old 06-21-17, 03:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwerius View Post
Ator,
Kun je me naam en adres geven van waar je de unit hebt gekocht?
Daar heb ik ook wel belangstelling voor....

m.vr.gr.,
Zwerius Kriegsman.
geen energierekening meer: energie + woonhuis van de fam. Kriegsman in Ootmarsum

I bought it at: https://tuclimatizaciononline.es/bom...dhwm80znt.html but there are more suppliers in Europe in the Netherlands, France, Germany ect. A short google search for this model will give you some prices. International shipping wasn't included so you have to ask them first before ordering.

The list of heat pumps and the amount of subsidy can be found here: http://www.rvo.nl/sites/default/file...rmtepompen.pdf

Stuur me een PM als je nog specifiek vragen hebt, help je graag verder!
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Old 06-23-17, 01:18 AM   #8
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Ator,

Thanks.
How can I send a PM to you?
Can't seem to find this option.
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Old 06-24-17, 12:38 PM   #9
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Default Usage

I've been running the unit for 10 days now and I can't say I'm not satisfied with it. I thought you might want to see some numbers.

Using the water for showering and washing some dishes; the unit reheated the water in 01:58 hours using a mere 0.332kWh. That's only 0,06 cents per day. The day was extraordinarily warm for our climate (>28 degrees C), so we have to see whether this will be possible in winter too.

I also plotted the temperature increase and the power consumed over time. Feel like it's an interesting relationship, which I guess shows that the last 5 degrees C the unit is operating at max power (250W + Fan). Wonder how that affects COP.

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Old 08-15-17, 10:27 AM   #10
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Default Usage Update

The unit has been running over 2 months now, so I thought it would be time to post a usage update. Combined with the previous posts it should give everyone a good idea of the operating costs and savings with this unit.

The average daily usage is about 0.5 kWh. This consists of 0.4 kWh per day and once every 14 days a Legionella prevention programme: About 2 kWh (75 Degrees C). I would guess that yearly usage will be around 200 kWh.

This is for 2 people and only includes shower and tap water. We have a Hansgrohe Eco showerhead (might be worth a separate review) and only really use warm water to wash the stuff that doesn't fit in the dishwasher: so we don't use that much water.

The unit is quite noisy standing next to it, but with the door closed I don't notice it. I'm also still very happy with the easy controls, it's a breeze changing anything.

We cut our hot water costs in half in comparison to the on demand gas heater. So all in all I would recommend the unit!

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