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Old 10-22-11, 07:51 AM   #11
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The water to air heat exchangers are supposed to work really well because of their large surface area and the fan blowing across them allows greater flexibility in placement, if your house already has forced air heat it could even be placed in the cold air return duct work, but it sounded like you just wanted to heat your basement, correct? if that is the case then something like this could be installed in a drop ceiling or built in to the wall.

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Old 10-22-11, 10:57 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xringer View Post
But, not for radian heating, but to scavenge the 60F slab heat. It's free geothermal heat!
According to this map:


The yearly average heat for the earth where you live (at 25 foot depth) is about 50F degrees.

That would imply that the '60F degree free geothermal heat' is actually coming from heating your home, going down into the earth, not up from the earth.

You could extract heat from a 50F floor to heat your basement, but your floor will get pretty darn cold when you do it.

But hey, why not give it a try!!?

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Old 10-22-11, 01:54 PM   #13
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We've discussed this before.. And it's still puzzling me.
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/geothe....html#post4322

I even injected foam under the boiler to cut down the transfer.

However, I now have some new sump holes installed. (with pumps).
And luckily (or not) there is cold ground water coming into the sumps.

Had some rain this month.


Anyways, when I checked the incoming water, it was at 61 deg F.
And I'm pretty sure it's not going to get much colder than 60F.

My theory is, this water is flowing downhill to my house from the north.
It has to flow under the street. I believe it might be picking up some heat
from the sewer main pipes (and perhaps a little from the water main pipes).
The sewer main is about 30 feet (and about 16 feet down) from my foundation.

The water in sewer mains is being used in Europe as a heat source for heating.
So, the same effect might be heating my basement..

Edit:
Now that I think about it, if the water is flowing downhill, just a few feet under the pavement,
there is the possibility of some slight solar heating of soil under the roadway and the water it's carrying.

Last edited by Xringer; 10-22-11 at 04:58 PM.. Reason: Brainstorming
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Old 10-22-11, 05:54 PM   #14
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Anyways, when I checked the incoming water, it was at 61 deg F.
It would be very useful for you to measure and graph the temp of the water coming into your sumps, on a weekly basis.


As you can see from this chart, there is a temperature lag, depending on depth... the deeper, the greater the lag.

As you can see, on the chart, the yearly average is 62F, so this particular chart is for North Carolina or similar. But for you, the natural temperature of the earth will be around 50 degrees... but the temp swings will have about the same timing, and about the same departure from the center-line.

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And I'm pretty sure it's not going to get much colder than 60F.
If it doesn't get colder than 60F, you probably have something else going on... my guess is that the whole thing is a result of your home heat penetrating down into the ground.

Just out of curiosity, what is the temperature of your cold water, after it has run for maybe three or four minutes?

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Last edited by AC_Hacker; 10-22-11 at 06:09 PM..
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Old 10-22-11, 07:54 PM   #15
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Ran the water. After about 8-10 minutes, it's at ~63 degrees F.
(62.8 on one sensor & 63.2 on the other).

I have a feeling that it might be due to a large thorium deposit,
since we are sitting in an area that seems to be surrounded by granite.

UMass Amherst Office of News & Information : News Releases : UMass Amherst and Connecticut Geologists Position New England for Success in the Geothermal Power Era


We have some extremely large (the size of small cars) granite boulders in the back yard.
I think these came down with a glacier and couldn't make it up the hill..
The problem is, these are partly sunken into the ground.
But have not sunk any deeper since 1973.. And they should have!
There is a swamp about 15 feet north of them!
With running water on the surface almost all year round.
The ground back there is like mush.Those rocks should be gone..
But, it seems like there is something very solid underneath them..

So, there might be a large granite formation, or bedrock very near the surface.
The house to the west of me (about 45 feet away) was built on slightly higher ground.
But, their ground floor looks MUCH higher, since their basement pit, was never dug..
Their basement floor is right at ground level. Back in 1956, the people
digging out all the basements on this street, gave up on the one next door..

I would not be at all surprised to find out there was a solid granite hill top
just a few feet under our basement floor slab..

NH, aka the Granite State is actually the Radioactive Granite State.
As they found out back in 1962..
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti.../pnas00234-002

http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2011AM/fin...act_197051.htm

Last edited by Xringer; 10-22-11 at 09:50 PM.. Reason: Hot rocks!
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Old 10-23-11, 09:51 AM   #16
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This radioactive stuff is creeping me out. Time to check the Radon gas at the new sump holes.



If it goes over 5 or 6 ppm, I'm going to need to add some ventilation to the basement.
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Old 11-08-11, 06:57 PM   #17
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Radon gas was only 2 ppm.. (Normal in my house), so I've moved the sensor to another new sump hole.
It takes a couple of weeks to get a good reading.


I've been watching the temperature in the sumps, which are pretty dry today.
On average, the three deep holes are showing 56.2F this week.
Got the same 56.2 temp on the floor (surface) at the far end of the house, from the hot-water boiler..

Tap water is now at 55.7F and I'll be interested to see what happens
after we get water in the sumps again..
Maybe higher ground water levels will increase the basement temps?
Or, maybe as the winter wears on, it will drop down to the low 50s.?.
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Old 11-09-11, 10:25 AM   #18
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Personally I like active air systems due to their simplicity and reliability. An air leak is much less of an issue than a water leak. An aluminum screen collector is dead simple and cheap compared to a hydronic system. Considering the sheer amount of btus required for space heating, IMO forced air is a better solution. Forget complicated heat storage (except maybe some thermal mass in the living space where you can incorporate it), and just try to offset your fuel use as much as possible. Why use the "higher quality heat" of hydronic system when a higher volume of "lower quality heat" from an active air system gets the job done just as well? Being more economical will allow you to maximize your collector area. Just my $0.02
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Old 11-09-11, 01:11 PM   #19
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Yeah, I think you are right.. If I didn't have to deal with the bush in front of the house,
I would love to have a basement heater like this one..


That miniature tree doesn't really do anything. Just for looks..


Maybe when I get some new replacement windows for the Den,
I can build a 16'x4' hot-air collector out of the old Andersen sliders..
Or, maybe put two 4'x'8' collectors on either side of the special plant..?.
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Old 11-10-11, 10:21 AM   #20
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Or, maybe put two 4'x'8' collectors on either side of the special plant..?.
That bush is too close to your house anyway. They need about 2' of clearance from your house so that the siding can dry out.

If moving it isn't an option, you could build a raised bed around the front of your house and have the solar collector on the front of that bed. That would involve some more complicated duct work, but it may mean you are able to have your solar collector and keep the bush .

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